Forum archives » Fights Go Here » Did Someone Mention Music?

jes_lawson
October 22, 2003 6:43 PM

two music threads have been getting tetchy. Therefore:

1. The Wannadies are not shite.

2. Dancecore. WTF?

3. Classical music needs to be listend to more than once? You weren't listening hard enough.

4. Modern Pop is gash.

5. Pop R&B can kiss my 'blog.

6. [Your pet music gripe here]

Let's start with Number 1...

Post #106175link

IB_XC
October 22, 2003 8:24 PM

Did someone mention Dropkick Murphys?

No? They damn well should have.

Post #106188link

bunnerabb
October 22, 2003 9:02 PM

quote:
1. The Wannadies are not shite.
[Your pet music gripe here]
Let's start with Number 1...


Maybe not. But if everything they do sounds like the "Me and You Song", they are less than shite. I'll take a stab at more Wannadies if need be to get a broader scope of their stuff, but if I hear anything like the most insufferably tuneless, mewling trash to ever make me swan dive for the STOP button that is the "Me and You Song" vomit forth from my speakers, I'm going to start mailing these bastards anthrax.

Post #106195link

umfumdisi
October 23, 2003 8:09 AM

Listen to jazz

Post #106253link

boorite
October 23, 2003 8:30 AM

The way that can be told
is not the eternal Way
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.

Post #106256link

kramer_vs_kramer
October 23, 2003 8:51 AM

Although pop R&B irks me greatly, I'm quite pleased by the current popularity of dancehall, although I think Sean Paul is in danger of being overexposed and should probably fuck off for a bit.

And I hope Josh decides to join this thread and tell us all exactly what genre our favourite bands are.

Post #106261link

mmyers
October 23, 2003 9:50 AM

quote:
1. The Wannadies are not shite.

4. Modern Pop is gash.



1. Agreed. While not my favorite band (I've enjoyed what I've heard well enough, but haven't gone out of my way to get new stuff), I definitely don't consider them shite. No Doubt, now they are shite. *shudder*

4. I've got a little love in my heart for modern pop, simply because at times it's so bad that it's almost good again. I made fun of Britney Spears so much that I can now sing along with her. There must be something redemptive if she can get in my head like that.

I often think of 'pop' music not as the festering pile of crap that seems to pour out of the speakers of cars cruising the Save-Rite, but rather look at pop music as bands like Apples in Stereo, Fountains of wayne, Teenage Fanclub, Material Issue. Power pop, if that phrase exists anymore. Simple, hooky songs. So I'll amend "Modern pop is gash" with "Modern Top 40 is gash." Gash. I love that word.

And I still love bunner, even if our musical tastes shall never find a common ground.

Post #106267link

bunnerabb
October 23, 2003 11:22 AM

quote:
The way that can be told
is not the eternal Way
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.



"MmmmmmyeahhhhUPYOURASS!" - Eric Cartman

Post #106275link

JrnymnNate
October 23, 2003 11:47 AM

quote:
3. Classical music needs to be listend to more than once? You weren't listening hard enough.


W T F is this crap

k mister, I hope you pride youself on the ability to scrutinize every detail of a symphony on the first listen. And if this is in fact the norm, why then do the hellcasters require more than one listen?

Post #106279link

JrnymnNate
October 23, 2003 11:50 AM

quote:
Listen to jazz

then we'd all be happy

Post #106281link

boorite
October 23, 2003 12:00 PM

quote:
k mister, I hope you pride youself on the ability to scrutinize every detail of a symphony on the first listen. And if this is in fact the norm, why then do the hellcasters require more than one listen?

Jes and I are separate persons, Nate.

Post #106283link

jes_lawson
October 23, 2003 12:00 PM

quote:
quote:
3. Classical music needs to be listend to more than once? You weren't listening hard enough.


W T F is this crap


Yeah, I was a little harsh.

Some bits of music, which would include Orange Blossom Special, jazz and many classical pieces, can be listened to again and again, and you still hear something different and new.

Post #106284link

boorite
October 23, 2003 12:02 PM

quote:
"MmmmmmyeahhhhUPYOURASS!" - Eric Cartman

The wise student on hearing the Tao
diligently puts it into practice.
The average student on hearing the Tao
keeps it one minute and loses it the next.
The mediocre student on hearing the Tao
laughs at it loudly.
If this student did not laugh it would not be the Tao.

Post #106285link

jes_lawson
October 23, 2003 1:14 PM

"Bravery and cowardice are not things that can be conjectured in times of peace. They are in different catagories."

Post #106292link

JrnymnNate
October 23, 2003 3:45 PM

I'm feeling under the weather, sorry.

Post #106308link

boorite
October 23, 2003 3:53 PM

quote:
I'm feeling under the weather, sorry.

Oh no! We told you not to listen to the Wannadies!

....I'll be hiding in an undisclosed dumpster if anyone needs me.

Post #106310link

jes_lawson
October 23, 2003 4:53 PM

You mean that electrified dumpster bunnerrab pissed in? Mind out. I threw some medical waste in there.

Post #106323link

IB_XC
October 23, 2003 6:20 PM

In the merry month of June from my home I started left the girls of Taum nearly brokenhearted saluted me father dear kissed me darling mother drank a pint of beer my grief and tears to smother then off to reap the corn leave where I was born cut a stout blackthorn to banish ghosts and goblins brand new pair of brogues rattling over the bogs frightening all the dogs on the rocky road to Dublin one two three four five!

Usually I would type it normally, on different lines and all, but this better fits the tempo of the song. I'll go back to my comics now.

Post #106333link

choadwarrior
October 23, 2003 8:20 PM

On the whole genre/classification of music issue--

Compare music to food.

There are plenty of styles of food, but nobody bellyaches(pardon the pun) if someone classifies it or sub-classifies it.

Okay--you like Japanese food...sushi or tempura?French food...haute, nouvelle, or provencal? Italian food...Tuscan or Sicilian? Chinese food...Szechuan or Mandarin? Indian food...madras, vindaloo, or tandoori? While most of these are regional variations, not all of them are.

Do you see how this works?

My favourite restaurant at the moment is a Latin-Asian fusion place. They took inspiration cuisines on two entire continents and came up with a great menu. One of these days, someone will come up with a better term or descriptor than Latin-Asian fusion, and we'll call it that. Nobody will bitch that "Latasian" or whatever is a figment of a marketing wizzard's imagination and I can state with certainty that nobody will make the claim that it is only "food."

Listen to whatever you want to listen to. Call it whatever you want to call it. Buy whatever you want to buy, and download whatever you want to download until the RIAA sues you.

Post #106347link

umfumdisi
October 23, 2003 10:41 PM

Is choad trying to tell us that his favorite band is Cake?

Post #106362link

bunnerabb
October 23, 2003 10:43 PM

quote:
Do you see how this works?

Gosh, no. The entire concept eludes me.

quote:
Nobody will bitch that "Latasian" or whatever is a figment of a marketing wizzard's imagination and I can state with certainty that nobody will make the claim that it is only "food."

Oh, I dunno. I eat a lot of different stuff and I call it all "food" unless I'm asked for a detailed description of my dinner. My best response is still: "Try it. Grab a plate."

I don't suppose that the fact that these regional stylisations of food preperation / variation of principal ingredients therein, have evolved, almost en toto, sans the "assistance" of hordes of marketing executives and have been around - in some cases - for thousands of years before recorded music?

I mean... Nouvelle Cuisine? Please. "New Food?" There is no "New Food." There are no "New Notes." Only the opportunity to use what's there to create something that is a unique expression of the artist. Calling it something that requires 7 hyphens makes it neither magical - nor palatable, for that matter - should it taste like ass on a damp stick.

If there is a need to give some labels to certain things in order warn people away from it, or help them find something in the same style from an artist they might have enjoyed, there is a modicum of validity in that, I suppose. I mean, how many kids who wanted to try curry might have been dissuaded from liking it at all because they were happily munching on some chicken Korma and their wise-assed, older brother - the curry freak - says "Nah.. that stuff's shit. It's for wussies. Eat some of this Phaal."

After the kid's skin grows back on their upper palatte, they have but one thing to say. "Curry sucks."

On the other hand, saying "Naw, see... this is East COAST New Jack Street Gangsta Style!®" - and handing the CD it's own category at the Mtv awards - doesn't alter the fact that it's a bunch of motherfuckers talking about murder, prostitution, misogyny, owning expensive cars and being a criminal as things that are terribly, terribly interesting and desirable. It also doesn't mask the fact that they, often, can't sing and, often, pretty much sound like every other artist who's forte is trying to sound menacing over snippets of other people's work.

In my opinion, it's a tad difficult to create "new music" when the "new style" is nothing more than endlessly referencing what's already been done - from James Brown to whatever sold the most last week - with the aid of samplers and cookie cutter guitar sounds.

Then again, there seems to be a market for that sort of work, but it doesn't necessarily make it music. There's a market for chrome ball lawn ornaments, too. That doesn't necessarily make them art. Fine. So call rap: "rap", and call lawn ornaments: "lawn ornaments". While we're at it, let's agree to call Twinkies: "crap".

I have no beef [HAW!] with certain tags being tossed on to musical styles in order to aide the uninitiated listener in ascertaining the piece's "flava", as it were, but I don't hear a lot of people saying: "I only eat north CENTRAL Pakistani Kashmiri Pandit cuisine, and if you don't, you are SUCH A FUCKING LOSER! You don't KNOW FOOD!"

See how this works?

Sometimes, a cheeseburger is just a cheeseburger and the toppings are just whatever is on top of the cheeseburger that is neither cheese nor meat.

I.E., I remain: Stuffing new music into wildly convoluted sub-genres is like handing out trophies to every kid in school whether it's for Valedictorian or Showing Up A Lot, and does not offer stylistic synopsis - nor assist in broad distribution or acceptance of the work - but simply stuffs music into smaller and smaller boxes that give the kids an opportunity to say: "No, this is MY music! It's DIFFERENT!"

That's neither cuisine nor art. It's marketing. It's running with the tattered and deflated ball that record companies were handed, courtesy of an incredibly large generation of kids who took their music pretty seriosuly, in the sixties. The recording and distribution of music became a marketable commodity with a very large consumer base, for whom the labels pushed more and more money into bankable acts and dilligently tried to sign new ones that sounded like the last band that shifted 10 million units. They simply got on any horse that they could get puchase of, and rode it as far as they could. They did not then, nor do they now, give a rabid goat's ass about art.

As a matter of fact, there was a very overt attempt by labels in the 1980's to pursue the concept of marketing pop music EXACTLY the way professional sports are marketed. And as we all know, one of the principal attractions for a lot of sports fans is allegiance to the home team. We are still dusting the fallout from that huge bomb off of our collective Kid Rock T-Shirts, IMHO.

The proliferation of narrow and multi-hyphenated market channels results, on the street level, in being a bid for allegiance. That, and a lot of pretentious twats who actually think that their work can only adequately be described with the most ostensibly nouvelle and elite genre tags on the shelf.

If you think I'm wholly mistaken, please try and remember that I'm still out in the trenches in Pop Music Land and I hear what's being said about what, and by whom, on an almost first-hand basis. On both the street and industry levels. I am also sent ponderous clumps of industry publications on a monthly basis that are written by, and for, the people who work with this incandescantly brilliant form of music as a business on a daily basis. "Don't let what's easier for them as a business approach affect your limitations of musical appreciation". - is my only message here.

And so, I exhort you:

"Just try it. Grab a CD."

Listen without prejudice.

"Everybody's talkin' 'bout the new sound, funny, but it's still rock and roll to me." - B. Joel

quote:
Listen to whatever you want to listen to. Call it whatever you want to call it. Buy whatever you want to buy, and download whatever you want to download until the RIAA sues you.

Amen. And don't let them tell you what to call it, either. Don't forget, though: You might LIKE the chicken, and that's OK. Even if all of your friends only like the fish.

Post #106363link

boorite
October 24, 2003 8:57 AM

There are the ten thousand particular things. They are the manifestations of the single Mystery behind them, which relentlessly asserts itself in the world through these myriad shifting forms. These ten thousand things are called by names, and though the names are handy, it is important to remember that they aren't the names of the Mystery. The Mystery can't be named. This is as true of music as it is of food, or anything else. The more we talk, and the more we name, the farther we travel from the Source. It's a necessary trip. There is no way not to take it. And it can be fun as long as we remember the way back.

Post #106410link

boorite
October 24, 2003 10:39 AM

quote:
As a matter of fact, there was a very overt attempt by labels in the 1980's to pursue the concept of marketing pop music EXACTLY the way professional sports are marketed. And as we all know, one of the principal attractions for a lot of sports fans is allegiance to the home team.

Absolutely impossible to market "cool" in this way. Completely futile. I could have saved them millions if they'd asked me.

Post #106433link

mmyers
October 24, 2003 11:20 AM

quote:
quote:
As a matter of fact, there was a very overt attempt by labels in the 1980's to pursue the concept of marketing pop music EXACTLY the way professional sports are marketed. And as we all know, one of the principal attractions for a lot of sports fans is allegiance to the home team.

Absolutely impossible to market "cool" in this way. Completely futile. I could have saved them millions if they'd asked me.

Well both the sports industry and the music industry charge a shit load for their t-shirts, so in that way, I guess the music industry achieved some success. Things like that are only as successful as the audience lets it be, and as long as people shell out $30 for a Tom Petty tour shirt, the market will be there. Admittedly, there isn't the same kind of rabid desire for band paraphenalia as there is for sports hats and shirts, but obviously there's some market there or else they wouldn't make them. I just can't see paying $60 for two tix to Elvis Costello and then paying another $30 to prove I was there. Ridiculous.

Post #106440link

bunnerabb
October 24, 2003 3:31 PM

quote:
There are the ten thousand particular things. They are the manifestations of the single Mystery behind them, which relentlessly asserts itself in the world through these myriad shifting forms. These ten thousand things are called by names, and though the names are handy, it is important to remember that they aren't the names of the Mystery. The Mystery can't be named. This is as true of music as it is of food, or anything else. The more we talk, and the more we name, the farther we travel from the Source. It's a necessary trip. There is no way not to take it. And it can be fun as long as we remember the way back.

Fuckin' A.

Post #106468link

attitudechicka
October 28, 2003 8:35 AM

I hate to bring this thread back to life, much less have shit hurled at me for it, but it seems like everyone's saying the same thing, basically. Bunner is going about it the long winded way and uses words I don't really understand, but it seems like he agrees with choad more than he disagrees.

The best classification I can give to my favorite type of music is "Adult contemporary", which I know it isn't. The station I listen to adverstises itself to play "Modern Music", but it's not like the Pop 40 station in any way. It's softer, like soft rock, but still not completely soft rock. When people ask what I listen to, I say "You ever been to STL?" If they reply yes, then I say "The River." People laugh at me all the time, but fuck them. I like what I like. You like what you like. What's the point in making them fit into some stupid catagory?

I think this may be the work of computers, though, too. If you cruise through your winamp and look at the genres you can put your songs into, half of them don't even make any sense. I listen to "Pig Roasted Kettle Corn Rock". At my work, there's a radio system that titles each "station" (cycle of songs that plays at random) in the most obscure ways. It's currently set to "Coffeehouse jazz" something or another. However, if we didn't have these titles for these things, we wouldn't be able to distinguish one from the other.

I suggest a new system. I believe everything in the world is connected directly to numbers, therefore, let's have a number system.

I listen to 6.

Post #106789link

umfumdisi
October 28, 2003 11:07 AM

Hmmm. There's a station called "The River" (100.3FM) here in Knoxville, TN. They play what I'd called Lite Modern Rock with some 80s and 90s Pop/Rock thrown in for good measure.

We finally got an Urban station about a year and a half ago. Now there are three such stations (which is two too many since they all play the same music). The original station played harder rap and some old school stuff. But that ended as soon as major advertising $s started rolling in. Corporate Radio bastards.

Post #106819link

boorite
October 28, 2003 11:15 AM

Every market has a soft-rock station called "The River" or "Lite one-oh-something FM."

Sometimes I listen to the Lite Jazz station. Have actually heard some good, non-Kenny-G stuff on there.

Post #106820link

boorite
October 28, 2003 11:22 AM

Google:

Searched the web for "the river" fm. Results 1 - 10 of about 102,000.

Post #106824link

bunnerabb
October 29, 2003 6:36 PM

There are only 7 commercial FM radio stations. they are all satellite fed to every major market on the continent and they are all owned by Clear Channel Communications. And if you don't like it, go see the cool, new indie band at the cool local not-big-enough-for-an-arena-tour venue.

I mean, Clear Channel owns those, too, but... It's INDIE!

The radio, the venues, the labels....

Oh, by jingo! We have been screww-heww-heewwed!

*snark*

Post #107115link

bunnerabb
October 29, 2003 6:50 PM

No.. I mean seriously.

Post #107119link

choadwarrior
October 29, 2003 10:50 PM

I heard Peter Buck on the radio today, he said, "Talking about music is like whistling about chickens or dancing about architecture."

Post #107144link

bunnerabb
October 29, 2003 10:58 PM

True. But since architecture has been called frozen music, I guess the architecture dance is just not moving.

Post #107145link

boorite
October 30, 2003 8:14 AM

quote:
I heard Peter Buck on the radio today, he said, "Talking about music is like whistling about chickens or dancing about architecture."

*whistles "Turkey in the Straw"*

Post #107169link

mmyers
October 30, 2003 9:34 AM

I went to play some pool (billiards) with some friends back home this weekend and while there i ran into a guy who used to frequent the record store I worked in. Someone decided to load the jukebox up with the complete Smashing Pumpkins catalogue, starting at Gish (their first album) and going on from there (I left somewhere around Siamese Dream). I remarked that listening to that band makes me nostalgic and reminds me of a particular time (early 90s, college, mall jobs) so I went around the room and asked my friends what they thought of while hearing the Smashing Pumpkins. It was a lot of the same crap I was saying but the guy from the record store starts going off about how he NEVER listened to them, and never liked ANY band that came out after he was born, and he was very proud of his music tastes differing from what all the other kids in school liked and being deemed 'so weird' by his friends. I think he did mention that he liked Nine Inch Nails and New order but that was it, so just like that, 2 and half decades of music sucked to him. Apparently, he had heard it all and it all sucked.

Anyway, I could see where this was going and having generally had my fill of arguing about music lately, I let him go off on the tangent that he felt he needed to make. After a few minutes, though, he said, "I don't understand how anyone could listen to grunge rock or alternative music or the Pixies. It all sounds like noise to me. Matt, you like the Pixies. What's the big deal about the them?" I tried for a minute or two to explain the enjoyment I get out of the Pixies to which he said, "But it sounds like noise" and "It's not like they're the second coming or anything." I shrugged it off and said, "Well, maybe that's the problem is that you're looking at them through hype colored glasses and so all you're getting is the 'this isn't as good as everyone says' vibe." He concluded by reminding me that "They sound like crap."

Well, on the way home I was talking to my wife and I began to realize that women never argue about music. I've never heard two women anywhere bicker about who brought punk rock to the states or Public Image Ltd was better than the Sex Pistols, only guys. And I've seen several times where the conversations heated up into full fledged fights. What the fuck? And it's not like I haven't heard women argue over some trivial business, but it's never music. I thought back on my record store days and realized that there were a ton of guys who came in and had to have every CD single, b-side, bootleg, and soundtrack that had band A on it (particularly guys into Guided by Voices, Yo La Tengo, Jim O'Rourke) but only about one or two girls who were that into any band (the two instances I can think of are the "Tori Amos" girl and a couple of Ani Difranco avids).

So my question for you all is this, why are guys so obsessed with music but not so much women? Why the need to collect them all? I think the answer to this make strike at the reason why there are so many sub-genres of music now, because to collect is to classify and distinguish. I yearn for your thoughts.

Post #107183link

boorite
October 30, 2003 10:44 AM

quote:
So my question for you all is this, why are guys so obsessed with music but not so much women?

I beg to differ. I am totally obsessed with women.

Post #107198link

DMSO
October 30, 2003 12:43 PM

quote:
I heard Peter Buck on the radio today, he said, "Talking about music is like whistling about chickens or dancing about architecture."

The "dancing about architecture" bit came from Frank Zappa, I believe.

Post #107226link

attitudechicka
October 30, 2003 3:39 PM

quote:
So my question for you all is this, why are guys so obsessed with music but not so much women?

I'm obsessed with music. However, I don't think it's worth arguing over. I say "I like this." I don't say, "Hey listen to this new punk techno grunge pop." It's not worth being an ass over.

And we don't buy CD's so much because we spend all our money on clothes. Don't you know that by now?

Post #107261link

mmyers
October 31, 2003 12:02 PM

quote:
And we don't buy CD's so much because we spend all our money on clothes. Don't you know that by now?
Am I any less of a man if I say that women are still a mystery to me? I totally forgot about the clothes and the shoes thing. I won't tell the other girls that you're betraying all their secrets, Chicka.

Post #107350link

little_kitty
October 31, 2003 2:13 PM

quote:
And we don't buy CD's so much because we spend all our money on clothes. Don't you know that by now?
I dunno... I spend more money on CD's than I do on clothes or any of the like. I also enjoy getting into musical debates, because then I get to hear how enthusiatic people are over their musical tastes. The only thing I get pissed off about when having these musical debates is when people say "blah blah sucks", especially if its one of my favorite bands. I have music posters on my walls, and people constantly want to set fire to one of them because THEY don't like it, to which i end up getting REALLY mad, because obviously i like them, or i wouldn't have the poster on the wall. I mean, I listen to other people talk about how awesome their music is and what they like and blah blah blah... Anyway, that's my contribuition to this, and i leave with these words : to each their own.

Post #107364link

boorite
October 31, 2003 8:53 PM

Hey young folks: Ya see how hip bunner, kaufman, and I are? See how jazzy fresh our taste in tunes is? Well, you're looking at your future. Yes, one day you'll put on your favorite record and some urchin just out of knee pants will declare he hasn't heard this old crap since like forever. Then you'll realize that everything you condsider cool is suddenly being presented as retro-kitsch on VH-1. Yes, smug celebrities you never heard of will be smirking at your culture. You will wonder how a just and loving God could permit this to happen. You will find yourself remarking that music these days sounds like noise. Go ahead and deny it. It will happen.

Then will come that fateful day when you find yourself doing your taxes, itemizing your deductions, piles of receipts all around-- with the classical music station on.

Happy Halloween, kids!

Post #107392link

bunnerabb
October 31, 2003 11:54 PM

Or shopping at the all night Super-K for socks and underwear, driving in a Medicare sled sedan with Mozart playing on your bitchin', two subwoofer car system.

Bwaaaahahahahahahahah!

Dip your bread in the gravy while you can, kids, because one of these days; you're going to be the next batch of old, fat, full-of-shit, uncool senior discount card holders. Only with a lot more piercings and tattoos.

If you're lucky.

On the upside, I like a lot of new music, too. Not because it's "hip". I just like it or I don't. And If I don't.... I DON'T CARE!

See?

Getting old has it's advantages, too.

Post #107400link

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