Mandingo and I have a pretty solid argument going on about adultery.  I know most of you here are open-minded about, well, anything.  The argument centers on Mandingo saying that if your mate cheats on you, they deserve to get cheated on in return (get a taste of their own medicine). 

Having committed adultery in my past and knowing how badly I hurt my ex in the process, I don't feel the same.  I feel that two wrongs don't make a right, it can only make things worse.  I feel very badly, still, about what I did umpteen years ago, but if the tables were turned, I view cheating in return as being vindictive.

We'd like to get your opinion. 

Oh, and, no, Mandingo wasn't the man I cheated with.

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pita wrote:
The argument centers on Mandingo saying that if your mate cheats on you, they deserve to get cheated on in return (get a taste of their own medicine).

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I thought about it, but it's too late now. 

Wait. Does your mate deserve to get cheated on and then dumped by you? Or just deserves for you to cheat and then make them aware of it, leaving you both to then evaluate how much you still want to be together at that point?

i'm just saying they deserve to be cheated on by someone in the future as payback and hopefully to learn their lesson. i was telling peets i wouldn't have a chance to cheat on them cause they'd be dumped too quickly.

and i don't consider peets an adulterer btw since there were extenuating circumstances in her situation. she knows i exclude her and amn't attacking her or anything. we're just talking general case

Mandingo, I love you.

This isn't really an argument, just a curiosity because Mandingo felt a huge percentage of people would agree with him that a cheater deserves to be cheated on.  (80%)

An adulterer is an adulterer, regardless of the reasons for doing it.

As a strong believer in faithful, monogamous relationships, I feel that you should never cheat unless the new person is significantly hotter and younger than your current partner.

But when it comes to getting revenge on a straying hose-hound, I wouldn't even go that route. I would probably just tell her that I faked every orgasm I ever had with her. Preferably, I would make this announcement loudly at dinner, in a crowded restaurant. Then I would throw my drink in her face. I would be drinking a biggie-size chocolate shake, too. The cup and everything would be all stuck to the side of her head. Public humiliation FTW.

Just see if you get this kind of advice from that mincing fag, Dr. Phil!

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I would be drinking a biggie-size chocolate shake, too.

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Damn, Daddy Warbucks, you sure know how to treat a lady right! I presume this was, like, an anniversary or birthday or something?

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Damn, Daddy Warbucks, you sure know how to treat a lady right! I presume this was, like, an anniversary or birthday or something?

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  If one person in a relationship feels like he wants to hurt the other one -- even for the rationalized purpose of "revenge" -- it's probably time to end the relationship.  If the relationship is based on love, then one person shouldn't be interested in hurting the other, even if they get hurt.  "Turn the other cheek," and all that, in a non-sodomy kind of way.  (Possibly)

  That being said, there are relationships where it's a-ok to go out and bang as many other people as you can get your dick into.  In that case, no worries.  But once you've entered a state where it satisfies one partner to inflict pain on the other, it's over.  Get out.

The circumstances in which they cheated come into play and remain a big factor.

I always say that if my partner were to cheat on me I'd leave her and never speak to her again, but that is easier said than done.

I don't think that I would cheat on her to get revenge but if she were to be cheated on by someone else down the line then it would be pretty sweet karma, seeing as then she would know the pain I was put through.

Also -- It's alright if you cheat on them with a celebrity. In my head Pita had a romantic encounter with one Johnny Vegas.

I think it depends on the situation. I mean, ideally, the cheating partner would fess up and basically give the other a freebie, and that would be that. Of course, if you and your partner are "on a break" or otherwise currently separated, I don't think it counts as cheating; if you aren't currently "with" someone (or otherwise committed), then you can't cheat on them.

But for me it comes down to the specifics of the cheating. If say, my fiancee were at a wild party, had too much to drink, and woke up in bed with another guy, I would have no problem forgiving her as long as she was honest about it from the start and did whatever she needed to in order to avoid a second occurence. I would be a little hurt, but I would understand and would put it aside. I like to think she'd feel the same way if something like that happened to me.

I guess it comes down to whether or not the person feels bad about cheating and genuinely considers it to be a mistake. If they try to treat it like it was nothing big or do it repeatedly, they need to reap what they sow.

It will eat you alive and you will never get over it. Move on. Return to go and do not collect $200.

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HCRoyall wrote:

I guess it comes down to whether or not the person feels bad about cheating and genuinely considers it to be a mistake.

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That's a good point.

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matclarke wrote:

It will eat you alive and you will never get over it. Move on. Return to go and do not collect $200.

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That's a good point, too, although it might not apply to everyone.

My mother destroyed our family by having an affair. When the other guy cheated on mom with a married woman and dumped her, my dad forgave mom and worked to patch up the marriage. Then the other guy begged mom to come back and she started cheating on my dad again. After a strange divorce, my mom married the guy she cheated on my father with. My dad finds himself unable to trust women. Despite my mother's obvious lack of remorse in the situation, he never cheated on her for revenge. Unlike my mother, he couldn't bring himself to hurt someone he loved.

So maybe I'm a bit biased, but I'm agreeing with Scyess. If a realtionship is based on revenge, it's not a relationship. I'm also agreeing with HC. If one party shows no remorse and continues to cheat, it's not a relationship.

Personally, I could never cheat. Ever. I had a front row seat seeing what my mother did to our family. I saw all the lies (believed them for a time, cause who wants to think of their mother as a cheating whore?), my brother and I were used by her to keep her deception going, and I saw my father try over and over to keep the marriage together, while she shit all over that. I will never be like that. Ever. If I fall for someone else, I'm going to have the balls to tell the person I'm currently with.

If the other person cheats and isn't remorseful, then the relationship is ended. I refuse to go what my father went through. There is no point in cheating on said person out of revenge because it's just being a spiteful asshole and no better than the person who cheated in the first place. If the other person was remorseful and worked to make things right, then I would forgive. I wouldn't cheat out of revenge because that certainly wouldn't solve anything. And it feels wrong.

Of course, I'm also the kind of person that couldn't have an open relationship. No matter how much my partner would insist it's okay that we sleep with other people, it just feels wrong.

But like I said, I'm biased.

So many factors play into this whole cheating thing ("Do you have a family together?" probably being the biggest in my mind).  I think it's hard to classify any varied unfaithfullness under this umbrella of "cheating"; and when it actually does come down to out and out cheating, where one person is secretly banging other people, I think it's still up in the air what to do.  You have to take into account the whole relationship, not just one factor, when decided on whether to dissolve it or not.

And hear this: There are worse lies a person can render to their mate beyond sneaking in extracurricular sex.

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ivytheplant wrote:

Of course, I'm also the kind of person that couldn't have an open relationship. No matter how much my partner would insist it's okay that we sleep with other people, it just feels wrong.

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I told you it wouldn't work with this one, boo.

Oh, right, and cheating just to get back at a cheater is stupid, immoral, childish, mean and crosses everyone's mind at some point.  I'd say that the relationship's somewhat fucked either way, so the cheated on might as well get some cheating out of the way if that's in them, because you're gonna' have to have all those long, heartfelt, raw, emotional conversations anyhow (In lieu of convos, some couples opt for criminal violence.  "When in Rome..."), you're going to run through your entire history together, and despite what either of you have done, the relationship will either mend or break based upon the convenience of the moment.  So you might as well get something out of it.

But, if you're not a natural cheater and wont enjoy it, don't bother.   Just do something else that you've been dying to do but your mate would be infuriated/hurt if you did it.  As long as it's legal.  In most cases.

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ArtemisStrong wrote:

Just do something else that you've been dying to do but your mate would be infuriated/hurt if you did it. As long as it's legal. In most cases.

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Oh sure, take all the fun out of it.

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ArtemisStrong wrote:

Just do something else that you've been dying to do but your mate would be infuriated/hurt if you did it.

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Like fuck the dog.

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ArtemisStrong wrote:

As long as it's legal. In most cases.

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Whoops. Missed that part.

There's a lot of factors to consider. I basically think that a person cheating would automatically ruin any chances of the relationship to continue. The trust is broken. Staying together further is just abusing yourself, and the cheater asking you to stay is just trying to maintain control over you. Therefore, if you decide to stay together after the other person has cheated, and you cheat, it's totally okay because in essence you were never really all that "together" to begin with.

With the case mandingo brings up that the cheater should simply be cheated on I have a two part opinion: 1. Maybe they were and they're so screwed up from it that they chose to take that path as well or 2. It's totally okay to point and laugh at their failure in monogamy.

Scyess: "If the relationship is based on love, then one person shouldn't be interested in hurting the other, even if they get hurt" - Beautiful.

ftc: I do believe in a sort of karma thing, as well. No, he wasn't a Johnny Vegas, although I wouldn't mind if he had been.

HC: "I guess it comes down to whether or not the person feels bad about cheating and genuinely considers it to be a mistake". Good point... in my case, it was one night and I still haven't really gotten over the guilt feelings.

Ivy: Jesus. Just so you know, I was the last person on earth I ever thought would cheat, seriously. Because of my religious and moral beliefs, I was actually determined that I would never do such a thing. I was fooling myself.

"If I fall for someone else, I'm going to have the balls to tell the person I'm currently with". The new me couldn't agree more... hindsight is 20/20.

Artemis: My ex thought he could forgive me, so I stayed (we'd been married at that point for 20 years, had 2 children, ages 16 and 9). Turns out he was unable to truly forgive me and then became vindictive, frequently exhibiting bizarre and violent behavior. It seemed all he wanted to do was hurt me.

"There are worse lies a person can render to their mate beyond sneaking in extracurricular sex."

I defiinitely don't agree with "you might as well get something out of it", though.

Chicka: Isn't mending once broken trust what real forgiveness is about? Maybe the cheater asking you to stay truly never meant to hurt you and will never do it again. In my case, I was so numb in shock that when he indicated he wanted me to stay I thought it was the right thing to do.

Scyess said it best, imo: "But once you've entered a state where it satisfies one partner to inflict pain on the other, it's over. Get out."

Ever see "The War of The Roses"? It's not an easy movie to watch.

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pita wrote:

Ivy: Jesus. Just so you know, I was the last person on earth I ever thought would cheat, seriously. Because of my religious and moral beliefs, I was actually determined that I would never do such a thing. I was fooling myself.

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Well, I'm aware that, despite how I feel, it may still happen to me. I'm not denying it and I can't see the future to know for sure. It could be the case that I will cheat, or never do. It could be the case that the girl next to me who would commit adultery never will, or will. And you could have not cheated or had. No one really knows for sure until they make that choice. What I'm saying is I saw firsthand the damage it does to cheater, cheatee, and those in the middle. My current reaction is to be physically ill when I think about it as applied to myself. I was just giving a background as to why I feel as I do and that right now I find it to be deplorable.

In cases where one party has been neglected by the other, I find it understandable. Supposedly, my mother was initially neglected by my father and I could have forgiven her actions if that was the case. People are, well, human and fallible. However, she set my father up to neglect her; she created the situation and blamed him for it. Okay, that's still forgivable in my opinion (she's a bitch and tends to set people up to fail), but the turning point of it all was when my father found out about the affair (when her lover dumped her) and forgave her, unconditionally. He then changed everything. He became a more attentive husband, gave up a good chunk of his career so he could be home with the family, and did everything she wanted. And she didn't care. She went right back to having an affair as soon as it suited her and blamed him for the affair.

To me, that's insanity. That's completely unacceptable. For all I know, I could feel neglected by boorite (which, at this point, is so laughable I can't een describe it) and have an affair. What separates me from my mother is that I'm not insane. I care deeply about people, even those who hurt me and I could not repeat the actions unless things didn't change.

But the question isn't whether or not I could cheat (still human), it is whether or not people think it's okay to cheat out of revenge. Might as well ask: If some kid makes a mistake and runs over your best friend, is it okay to run over theirs? Sure, adultery isn't the same as killing someone, but what the hell does revenge ever solve (outside of movies that use "inconceivable" too much)? How the hell can you move on with your life if you're too busy being petty and trying to hurt someone you're supposed to love?

Your poor father... I'd think if he made that much of an effort to change what she claimed was the reason (and I feel there's no good "reason" to commit adultery) she should have been appreciative that someone loved her that much.  She obviously didn't love him.

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But the question isn't whether or not I could cheat (still human), it is whether or not people think it's okay to cheat out of revenge.

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pita wrote:

Chicka: Isn't mending once broken trust what real forgiveness is about? Maybe the cheater asking you to stay truly never meant to hurt you and will never do it again. In my case, I was so numb in shock that when he indicated he wanted me to stay I thought it was the right thing to do.

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I wish I could spare your feelings, pita, I really do. I don't want you to take my feelings on the subject and apply them so personally. I have total respect for you and think you're awesome.

That being said, my answer still stands. I don't know a single couple who has mended their relationship after an affair and lived happily ever after. They usually fight a lot, sore feelings come out when they least expect it. A cheating partner, in my opinion, ruins the whole thing. That's not to say that forgiveness isn't possible, it simply isn't possible to continue the relationship in a normal, healthy way. I would not expect anyone to stay with me after cheating, and if they did I would lose respect for them every day they stayed. I don't care how much I love them or they love me, something lead me out of our relationship, which means something was broken to begin with. Cheating made it more broken. Is it really worth it to fight and struggle for something that wasn't even stable to begin with? Again, my opinion here: no.

Forgiveness post relationship is possible. Trust is even possible. That same loving relationship is not. Hurt feelings hide in places until you're just comfortable enough that they slip out.

I have personally tried to make too many relationships work after my partner has cheated on me (sometimes more than once), and it isn't worth it, to me, to go through all the pain of trying to rebuild something that took so long to build together in the first place. Plus, the cheater and the cheated on are both in such a rush to return to normal activities (and just plain make it bearable if they're living together) that they don't take the proper time to heal and process.

To mandingo: I wouldn't wish for cheating to happen to someone who cheated on me. I obviously cared about them at some point. And I would seriously want them to be happy, despite all of my feelings of hurt, betrayal, and jealousy. Life isn't worth it if you're just going to carry around a whole mess of emotional baggage all your life. And yes, as I'm saying this, I'm aware of my perfectly packed luggage that trails along behind me. But at the same time, it's only going to disappear if I work through it, not if I find out that the persons involved recieved a taste of their own medicine.

As someone who worked as a private investigator for several years I can say that I never saw a reconciliation work. Now, that doesn't mean people never reconcile, it just means that when they do I pretend they didn't.

Chicka, I have a newfound respect for you younguns. 

"Forgiveness post relationship is possible. Trust is even possible. That same loving relationship is not. Hurt feelings hide in places until you're just comfortable enough that they slip out. "

Where were you when, for the first 5 months or so afterward, I was treated like gold and thought I had my friend and lover back?  He not only did exactly what you said, but then started to actually punish me.  He never took the time to properly heal or process (I don't think he knew how), and I was too depressed to notice.

One thing I don't understand is why you would lose respect for them just because they made the choice to stay with you, though.  I actually respected him more for that, because he at least genuinely attempted to do something I don't think I could.

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attitudechicka wrote:
But at the same time, it's only going to disappear if I work through it, not if I find out that the persons involved recieved a taste of their own medicine.

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pita wrote:

One thing I don't understand is why you would lose respect for them just because they made the choice to stay with you, though.  I actually respected him more for that, because he at least genuinely attempted to do something I don't think I could.

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Because staying, to me, is like admitting defeat. Like you're not good enough to find someone who is going to respect you. Of the times I've stayed, looking back on it, that's what I see in myself - I felt like I deserved to be cheated on, made up reasons and excuses for my partner of why they would cheat (things I wasn't doing or was doing too often), etc. And all I did was wear myself down and add to the pain that was already there. But even still, until that better part of me learns to take over, I'd probably still do the same thing again, and that better part of me would still lose respect for me.

I'm agreeing with Chicka. If boorite cheated on me, and we broke up, I would be angry and might say something like I hope he gets a taste of it, but I wouldn't really mean it (Of course, boorite already had a taste of it from previous relationships, so that wouldn't do me any good). Despite what happened, I'd still care for him and wouldnt want to see him hurt. Despite everything my mother has done to me and my family, I hate seeing how shitty her current husband treats her. I still want her to be happy, despite everything she's done (and despite me not being able to completely forgive her).

Quit agreeing with me. You're all making me feel smart.

OKay, now that that's all settled--

Who's up for some ass-fun?

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pita wrote:

Scyess said it best, imo: "But once you've entered a state where it satisfies one partner to inflict pain on the other, it's over. Get out."

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That is, of course, assuming that people are in the relationship for love.  There are other reasons, I suppose:  to dominate the other person, to make yourself believe you won't be alone forever, etc.  But people at least pretend it's about love, so I commented thusly.

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pita wrote:

Ever see "The War of The Roses"? It's not an easy movie to watch.

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True.  And not just because of the bad scripting and Danny DeVito being the kiss of death to most movies where he plays more than a cameo role.  Actually, it's funny thing:  I was thinking of that movie when I wrote my response.

I just want to put it out there that if any of you guys here get cheated on and want to get the ultimate revenge, I'm available and discreet.

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Scyess wrote:

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mandingo wrote:

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But the question isn't whether or not I could cheat (still human), it is whether or not people think it's okay to cheat out of revenge.

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the question i was posing was whether people who cheat deserve to be cheated on. whether it's okay to cheat out of revenge is a whole different question, since it depends on the person who would then have to go do the revenge cheating, and that may not be in their nature, as someone else said.

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In that case, the question is so general that the only answer is "it depends on many factors." Too many to type out all possible scenarios to any degree of specificity unless I have years to do it and get a PhD when I'm done. Here's a subset: Is the cheater genuinely regretful? Were they going through problems (alcoholism, depression, tribbles in the bathtub, etc.) which might make for extenuating circumstances? Would cheating done by the other person be disproportionaly painful for the original cheater, etc. etc. You could go on forever.

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AccentuateNegative wrote:
I just want to put it out there that if any of you guys here get cheated on and want to get the ultimate revenge, I'm available and discreet.

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mandingo wrote:
... about as exciting as arguing over your favorite color

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My favorite color is worth arguing over.  I love sky blue.  Not

azure, cerulean, navy-blue, midnight-blue, cadet-blue, robin's-egg-blue, baby-blue, ultramarine, aquamarine, electric-blue, steel-blue, Windsor, Squill, Wedgewood, or Federal blue...

It must be sky blue.

Seafoam green 4 evar!

I clicked on this thread thinking it said "The Scarlet Pole."

When I  first read that I though it said "The Scarlet Hole".

When I first read that I thought it said, "Black on black muscle guys huge cocks click here."

Alas, there was nowhere to click.

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not_Scyess wrote:

When I first read that I thought it said, "Black on black muscle guys huge cocks click here."

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I just sat here for five minutes clicking that.

i'm in ur threadses clicking ur linkss

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ivytheplant wrote:
Seafoam green 4 evar!

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kaufman wrote:

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ivytheplant wrote:
Seafoam green 4 evar!

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Seafoam Green is People!

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i watched that movie recently and captured this image thinking it might be where the band Green Day took its name from. but it turns out it's just a pot reference. kids nowadays. i didn't fight in the great war so they could live in a hippy van fucking up my theories

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i watched that movie recently and captured this image thinking it might be where the band Green Day took its name from. but it turns out it's just a pot reference.

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Zaster wrote:

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i watched that movie recently and captured this image thinking it might be where the band Green Day took its name from. but it turns out it's just a pot reference.

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Yeah. And that one album title of theirs -- "Dookie". I thought it was about the influence of abstract expressionism on postminimalist formalism. Turns out it's just a scatological reference.

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