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ObiJo
Eamus Catuli

Member Rated:

If refined carbohydrates increase the chance of heart disease, you have to ask yourself why you'd want to go off it. Like I said, it's the way I plan on eating for the rest of my life.

True of any diet. That's where exercise comes in.

I don't follow what you mean since your next sentence is:

Vitamins.

Just not as easy.

I've heard this, but never investigated it. I think I will.

Even if true, I'll trade kidney stones for heart palpitations and looming heart attack, death, and inheritance tax.

---
I ate a hooker half a bottle of knife.

8-01-02 2:53pm (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

quote:
If refined carbohydrates increase the chance of heart disease, you have to ask yourself why you'd want to go off it. Like I said, it's the way I plan on eating for the rest of my life.

Practically any doctor or nutritionist would approve of going off of refined sugars, processed flour and so on. That's not the same as what Atkins says about carbs.
True of any diet... That's where exercise comes in.
Not true, that I know of. And without stored glycogen, exercise will cause you to lose more muscle mass.

I don't follow what you mean since your next sentence is:



"Neither kind of weight loss" referred to water and muscle loss. They make for weight loss, but not the kind you want.
quote:

Vitamins.

I take vitamins, but I'm not sure I'd call a diet healthy if it requires you take them. There are enough micronutrients in a balanced diet.
Just not as easy.
That's what worries me, is that people think the Atkins diet is an easy way to lose weight. But so far you've said it drives your body into ketosis and requires you to take vitamin supplements. Some critics say it causes you to lose the wrong kind of weight and that it's easily gained back. I don't know if it sounds so easy to me.
quote:

Even if true, I'll trade kidney stones for heart palpitations and looming heart attack, death, and inheritance tax.

Die, you fucker.

But seriously, if you're worried about your heart-- I don't think you'd find a member of the American Heart Association's Nutrition Committee who'd go anywhere near this diet. I know you said your cholesterol has gone down, which is normal-- but they say it will go back up (particularly the "bad" LDL cholesterol) if you stay on the diet after you've lost the weight.

I dunno, maybe it works for you. I'm going to see you in Hell anyway, so who cares?

---
What others say about boorite!

8-01-02 3:35pm (new)
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KajunFirefly
chooby digital (in stereo)

Member Rated:


Amen to that, brother.

---
Dad was flammable

8-01-02 4:53pm (new)
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wirthling
supercalifragilisticexpialadosucks

Member Rated:

Had it tested Monday.

---
"And Wirthling isn't worth the paper he isn't printed on."

8-01-02 9:52pm (new)
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wirthling
supercalifragilisticexpialadosucks

Member Rated:

I don't think it's necessarily an easy way to lose weight. I've already had to relearn how to cook (I can make scrambled eggs!). You have to shop carefully. You have to drink a lot of water. So far, I have found it to be a challenge to do everything right.

At any rate, my plan is to use Atkins to get down to my target weight (about 185) and then try to balance my diet out a bit. I worry about the prolonged ketosis, so I think I will probably try to bring myself out of it by eating a low-to-moderate amount of carbs and keeping my weight down with exercise (which will be a hell of a lot easier when I'm at a normal weight).

A couple of years ago, my wife and I started going to the gym (cardiovascular exercise and weight-lifting) three to four times a week, eating salads most days for lunch, and eating reasonable low-fat meals at other times. We did this for three months. At that point we realized that we had been doing it for three months and had lost a total of maybe 6 pounds between the two of us. This was psychologically devastating and we pretty much gave up. My wife was looking into gastric bypass surgery recently and probably would have done it had we not started learning about the Atkins diet. (I worry a lot more about gastric bypass surgery than I do about ketosis.) It's easy enough to say "just eat right and exercise" but it's just not that easy for some of us.

---
"And Wirthling isn't worth the paper he isn't printed on."

8-01-02 10:07pm (new)
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DexX
What the Cat Dragged In

Member Rated:

Exactly! Some of us drew the joker from the metabolism pack.

(I didn't - my main problem is that I do almost no exercise and drink too much cola. I think I was dealt a decent hand, but I played it very badly. Is the metaphor getting laboured yet?)

---
This signature has performed an illegal operation and has been shut down.

8-01-02 10:17pm (new)
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ObiJo
Eamus Catuli

Member Rated:

quote:
quote:
If refined carbohydrates increase the chance of heart disease, you have to ask yourself why you'd want to go off it. Like I said, it's the way I plan on eating for the rest of my life.

Practically any doctor or nutritionist would approve of going off of refined sugars, processed flour and so on. That's not the same as what Atkins says about carbs.
Semantics. I could just have easily said if carbohydrates increase the chance of heart disease, you have to ask yourself why you divert from an eating lifestyle that excludes them.

True of any diet... That's where exercise comes in.


Not true, that I know of. And without stored glycogen, exercise will cause you to lose more muscle mass.
I've always lost muscle mass when I've lost weight (and if you look above, you can see I've lost more than you probably weigh). And I've always gained muscle mass when weight training.

These two facts are so self-evident to me. If they're not to you, OPEN YOUR EYES YOU LOUSY COCKSUCKER.

I don't follow what you mean since your next sentence is:



"Neither kind of weight loss" referred to water and muscle loss. They make for weight loss, but not the kind you want.
That's complete horseshit.

Some of the weight loss from the Atkins diet IS due to water loss. It's due to the body using up glycogen stores in the body, which have water associated with them. For each 1 gram of glycogen, the body stores 3 grams of water. Aggressive estimates put this water loss at 7 to 10 pounds.

I've lost 100. Do the math. A high percentage of the weight loss from the Atkins diet comes from loss of fat. Anyone telling you different is blowing smoke up your ass, or doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.

quote:
quote:
Vitamins.

I take vitamins, but I'm not sure I'd call a diet healthy if it requires you take them. There are enough micronutrients in a balanced diet.
You take vitamins yet don't recommend a diet where vitamins are taken? Even ignoring the validity of the vitamin recommendations (brought to us by the same geniuses who gave us the assinine and unhealthy food pyramid, no doubt), and the necessity of taking them during the Atkins diet (recommended, not required. though highly recommended in the induction phase) your do-as-I-say, not-as-I-do attitude make me want to shit velveta.

That's what worries me, is that people think the Atkins diet is an easy way to lose weight. But so far you've said it drives your body into ketosis and requires you to take vitamin supplements. Some critics say it causes you to lose the wrong kind of weight and that it's easily gained back. I don't know if it sounds so easy to me.


The Atkins diet isn't easy at first. It's hard to shop for, hard to cook for, and expensive. Does that make it more credible?

It's easy because your body is doing the work. Ketosis is a completely natural body process. It's not artificial in any way. We've learned how to invoke it, do, and reap the rewards from it.

Die, you fucker.

But seriously, if you're worried about your heart-- I don't think you'd find a member of the American Heart Association's Nutrition Committee who'd go anywhere near this diet.


I have little doubt that current medical opinion holds that the Atkins' diet increases heart disease. It reminds me of the planet Vulcan.

Ever heard of the planet Vulcan? In the late 19th century, it was noticed that Mercury had certain perturbations in its orbit that couldn't be explained. So scientists met (let's say at an underground silo, just for ambience), put their collective egg-shaped heads together and came up with the only possible solution - there must be a planet between Mercury and the Sun. This planet was given the name Vulcan.

And here's the point I want to stress. The scientists were completely correct in doing this. The planet vulcan was the only possible answer that physics predicted. They were making a logical deduction.

Well, about 20 years later, along comes a dick named Einstein and fucks everything up by turning physics on its head with his Theory of Relativity. It's quickly proven that relativity explains away the perturbations in Mercury's orbit, and the idea of a planet Vulcan is dismissed.

So who's the asshole in this story? It's not the relativists - they were right. It's not those predicting planet Vulcan - they acted logically with the information they had available.

No, the assholes were the ones who refused to see the perturbations at all.

12/19/2001 (3 months into the Atkins diet)

--Chem 2, HDL--
Cholesterol = 204; Range: 39 - LOW
LDL Cholesterol, Calc. = 157; Range: 39 - LOW
LDL Cholesterol, Calc. = 127; Range: <130
VLDL Cholesterol = 17; Range: 0-29
Cholesterol/HDL Ratio = 5.0; Range: <5

--Comprehensive Metabolic Panel--
Glucose = 86; Range = 65-109

---
I ate a hooker half a bottle of knife.

8-02-02 1:54am (new)
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ObiJo
Eamus Catuli

Member Rated:

Fear over gastric bypass surgery (stomach stapling) is exactly what started me on the Atkins diet too.

A 1.5% mortality rate doesn't sound too bad till that barrel's leveled at you.

---
I ate a hooker half a bottle of knife.

8-02-02 2:08am (new)
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Kevin_Keegans_Perm
Bean There, Done That

Member Rated:

quote:

(I didn't - my main problem is that I do almost no exercise and drink too much cola. I think I was dealt a decent hand, but I played it very badly. Is the metaphor getting laboured yet?)

Youre living my lifestyle for the last 4 years since i stopped working full time.

Even now i go out , i work , i come home , and then i sit with a 2 liter bottle of coke next to the computer and while away the hours on chat forums (one of which i just got made a mod after two years on).

Playing football is the most exercise i get , although i do have a mountain bike here which i plan on using over the next few months for a while.

---
"Life Sucks, Then you Die. The bit inbetween isnt very funny either"

8-02-02 7:34am (new)
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kramer_vs_kramer
Stripcreator Newbie

Member Rated:

You not going to take part in the Manx TT?

8-02-02 7:35am (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:


Ah. Well, if that's the question, I'd answer that I'm not aware that carbohydrates per se contribute to heart disease.

I don't think that's supposed to be good.

Without stored glycogen, weight training will cause you to lose muscle mass. Say what you want about how crappy medical research is; I think this is pretty well established.

quote:

These two facts are so self-evident to me. If they're not to you, OPEN YOUR EYES YOU LOUSY COCKSUCKER.
They say ketosis causes irritability.

quote:

Some of the weight loss from the Atkins diet IS due to water loss. It's due to the body using up glycogen stores in the body, which have water associated with them. For each 1 gram of glycogen, the body stores 3 grams of water.

2.4 grams.
quote:
Aggressive estimates put this water loss at 7 to 10 pounds.

And the argument is that this weight loss occurs very quickly, giving the dieter the false impression that the diet is succeeding. When you drop 10 pounds in 2 weeks, you, think, wow! But did you really set out to lose stored glycogen and the associated water?
quote:

I've lost 100. Do the math. A high percentage of the weight loss from the Atkins diet comes from loss of fat. Anyone telling you different is blowing smoke up your ass, or doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.
Yeah, you burn fat. Already acknowledged.

quote:
You take vitamins yet don't recommend a diet where vitamins are taken?

I certainly wouldn't recommend my fucking diet! I take vitamins to make up for my self-neglect.

Is that allowed on the Atkins diet?

You misrepresent me. I'm not telling anyone to do anything. I'm just questioning some truth claims. That's fair, right? I mean, a person says, x is true, then another person has a right to say, maybe, maybe not. Right?

quote:
It's easy because your body is doing the work. Ketosis is a completely natural body process. It's not artificial in any way. We've learned how to invoke it, do, and reap the rewards from it.

You must see this response coming from a mile away, but what the fuck: All kinds of bodily processes are completely natural-- hyperthyroidism, cancer, heart attacks. Getting fat is a natural bodily process. So is starving. I don't think that recommends it, necessarily.

Yeah. Science disproved its existence. I don't think the AHA Nutrition Committee had an official stance on it, though.

Anyhow, if it's all about science, we should be able to argue about it without getting personal. You pig fucker.

---
What others say about boorite!

8-02-02 8:04am (new)
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kaufman
Director of Cats

Member Rated:

8-02-02 8:17am (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

Speaking of "Slim": Did you know that a class action lawsuit is being brought against ConAgra foods, over their "SlimJim" trademark, on the grounds that "Slim" misleads health-conscious consumers into eating a stick of greasy, processed beef-parts?

It's true.

---
What others say about boorite!

8-02-02 8:21am (new)
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kaufman
Director of Cats

Member Rated:

quote:
Speaking of "Slim": Did you know that a class action lawsuit is being brought against ConAgra foods, over their "SlimJim" trademark, on the grounds that "Slim" misleads health-conscious consumers into eating a stick of greasy, processed beef-parts?

It's true.


Sheesh! Girl Scouts beware, your Thin Mints are next.

I'm still waiting for the lawsuit against "ConAgra" on the grounds that their name misleads consumers into thinking their products will cure priapisms.

---
ken.kaufman@gmail.com

8-02-02 8:26am (new)
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wirthling
supercalifragilisticexpialadosucks

Member Rated:

Mmmmmmm.

---
"And Wirthling isn't worth the paper he isn't printed on."

8-02-02 8:35am (new)
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pita
La fille qui a joué avec le feu

Member Rated:

quote:
Exactly! Some of us drew the joker from the metabolism pack.

(I didn't - my main problem is that I do almost no exercise and drink too much cola. I think I was dealt a decent hand, but I played it very badly. Is the metaphor getting laboured yet?)


Hell, some of us drew both jokers.

---
“It is only with the heart that one sees rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.” - The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1945)

8-02-02 8:41am (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

OK, I made up that shit about the SlimJim lawsuit. But it could have been true.

Oh, and Kaufman: Hahaha!

---
What others say about boorite!

8-02-02 8:44am (new)
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wirthling
supercalifragilisticexpialadosucks

Member Rated:

interesting article about Atkins and weight loss

---
"And Wirthling isn't worth the paper he isn't printed on."

8-02-02 8:48am (new)
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kramer_vs_kramer
Stripcreator Newbie

Member Rated:

If the diet was first invented in 1970, why has it taken until now to really take off?

I think I'll just stick to my banana and vodka diet.

8-02-02 8:59am (new)
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wirthling
supercalifragilisticexpialadosucks

Member Rated:

another one

The more I'm reading, the more convinced I am that I will want to switch to a different plan once I reach my target weight. Atkins is still the best way I've seen so far to lose a lot of weight. Keeping it off will be the hard part but, as I said previously, it will be much easier and less dangerous to exercise once I'm at a normal weight.

---
"And Wirthling isn't worth the paper he isn't printed on."

8-02-02 9:03am (new)
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DexX
What the Cat Dragged In

Member Rated:

This kind of shit annoys me. Modern homo sapiens did not evolve from Neanderthals. Neanderthals and Cro Magnons evolved along two different branches of the evolutionary tree. They co-existed for a time, but the Neanderthals died out (nobody has ever been able to figure out why) and the Cro Magnons became modern humans.

Nitpicking, I know, but it pisses me off to see that kind of thing in supposedly well-researched articles.

---
This signature has performed an illegal operation and has been shut down.

8-02-02 9:37am (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

8-02-02 9:41am (new)
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wirthling
supercalifragilisticexpialadosucks

Member Rated:

This kind of shit annoys me. Modern homo sapiens did not evolve from Neanderthals. Neanderthals and Cro Magnons evolved along two different branches of the evolutionary tree. They co-existed for a time, but the Neanderthals died out (nobody has ever been able to figure out why) and the Cro Magnons became modern humans.

Nitpicking, I know, but it pisses me off to see that kind of thing in supposedly well-researched articles.


Actually, there are several errors in that article (for one, she, like many other "experts," doesn't seem to know the difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis). I just found the USDA findings (which the author didn't screw up, hopefully) to be of interest. It does make you wonder about the credibility of "expert nutritionists," though, when they often tend to be people like the author of that article.

---
"And Wirthling isn't worth the paper he isn't printed on."

8-02-02 10:08am (new)
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ObiJo
Eamus Catuli

Member Rated:


Ah. Well, if that's the question, I'd answer that I'm not aware that carbohydrates per se contribute to heart disease.

I don't think that's supposed to be good.

Without stored glycogen, weight training will cause you to lose muscle mass. Say what you want about how crappy medical research is; I think this is pretty well established.

quote:

These two facts are so self-evident to me. If they're not to you, OPEN YOUR EYES YOU LOUSY COCKSUCKER.
They say ketosis causes irritability.

quote:

Some of the weight loss from the Atkins diet IS due to water loss. It's due to the body using up glycogen stores in the body, which have water associated with them. For each 1 gram of glycogen, the body stores 3 grams of water.

2.4 grams.
quote:
Aggressive estimates put this water loss at 7 to 10 pounds.

And the argument is that this weight loss occurs very quickly, giving the dieter the false impression that the diet is succeeding. When you drop 10 pounds in 2 weeks, you, think, wow! But did you really set out to lose stored glycogen and the associated water?
quote:

I've lost 100. Do the math. A high percentage of the weight loss from the Atkins diet comes from loss of fat. Anyone telling you different is blowing smoke up your ass, or doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.
Yeah, you burn fat. Already acknowledged.

quote:
You take vitamins yet don't recommend a diet where vitamins are taken?

I certainly wouldn't recommend my fucking diet! I take vitamins to make up for my self-neglect.

Is that allowed on the Atkins diet?

You misrepresent me. I'm not telling anyone to do anything. I'm just questioning some truth claims. That's fair, right? I mean, a person says, x is true, then another person has a right to say, maybe, maybe not. Right?

quote:
It's easy because your body is doing the work. Ketosis is a completely natural body process. It's not artificial in any way. We've learned how to invoke it, do, and reap the rewards from it.

You must see this response coming from a mile away, but what the fuck: All kinds of bodily processes are completely natural-- hyperthyroidism, cancer, heart attacks. Getting fat is a natural bodily process. So is starving. I don't think that recommends it, necessarily.

Yeah. Science disproved its existence. I don't think the AHA Nutrition Committee had an official stance on it, though.

Anyhow, if it's all about science, we should be able to argue about it without getting personal. You pig fucker.


Apology accepted.

---
I ate a hooker half a bottle of knife.

8-02-02 10:09am (new)
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ObiJo
Eamus Catuli

Member Rated:

It's all moot anyways because boo just got on AIM and told me he thought everything I said was completely and totally right. Apparently, he's been spreading misinformation in an attempt to kill us all off.

Gotta respect the guy.

---
I ate a hooker half a bottle of knife.

8-02-02 10:16am (new)
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Stripcreator » General Discussion » Atkins Boy - Pt2 - The Revenge


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