I agree

Stop oppressing me.

See, I like that kind of shtick better already.

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"And Wirthling isn't worth the paper he isn't printed on."

Wirthling said don't feed the trolls, and I said, but important issues blah blah sometimes someone has to say something etc. But the rule is a rule for a reason, and now I must say, I'm sorry I fed the troll.

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What others say about boorite!

Bad boorite.

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"And Wirthling isn't worth the paper he isn't printed on."

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romans were very religious and bummed each other for fun

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I can't swing to either extreme on the whole religion issue. I'm not overly religious, don't go to church, don't really believe much of what I hear, but I'm not a 100% non-believer of a God of some sort. It kinda fits in the same groove as aliens. Maybe they're out there. It seems sort of improbably, but maybe they are. And if so, it'd be kind of neat.

If there really is a God, there are a couple of things that I can't wrap my head around. I look at these from a logic standpoint.

God is supposed to love everyone, be humble, unassuming, etc. etc. But unless you worship him, you're going to burn forever in hell. That sounds a trifle odd. I'd be more willing to believe something like, "If you don't worship me, you'll get a shitty car in heaven and all the true believers can cut in front of you in line." This 'worship me or suck it' thing sounds more like something a God would do if he was Hitler.

I also have trouble with the fact that many of these beliefs which I deem as pretty stupid are all based on some antiquated book.

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(Lev. 20:13) "If a man lies with a male as a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them."

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Mr Selective quote might say:

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I...swing....I'm ...100%...God.
It... fits in the...groove.
I can...wrap my head around..and..suck it.

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As I see it, those old rules were basically guidelines on how to keep a very large group of people alive and reproducing in a very harsh environment. They couldn't afford to have men wasting their sexual efforts on animals and other men - they needed to keep having babies to keep up with the high infant mortality rate. Looking at it this way, a lot of that Old Testament stuff makes sense - menstruating women could be a genuine helth risk if they did not keep themselves clean, certain animals could be dangerous to eat, etc etc etc...

My current belief is that Jesus came along to tell everyone that all that bullshit was no longer necessary - civiliation had progressed, technology was improving, and it was now the time to start really thinking about becoming better people rather than following a whole lot of bullshit rules. The commandments still held, of course, but he added an eleventh - love one another. Basically, Jesus's message was, "Be good to each other and the world will be a better place."

All personal opinion, of course.

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As I see it, those old rules were basically guidelines on how to keep a very large group of people alive and reproducing in a very harsh environment. They couldn't afford to have men wasting their sexual efforts on animals and other men - they needed to keep having babies to keep up with the high infant mortality rate. Looking at it this way, a lot of that Old Testament stuff makes sense - menstruating women could be a genuine helth risk if they did not keep themselves clean, certain animals could be dangerous to eat, etc etc etc...

My current belief is that Jesus came along to tell everyone that all that bullshit was no longer necessary - civiliation had progressed, technology was improving, and it was now the time to start really thinking about becoming better people rather than following a whole lot of bullshit rules. The commandments still held, of course, but he added an eleventh - love one another. Basically, Jesus's message was, "Be good to each other and the world will be a better place."

All personal opinion, of course.

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I won't go into another religious debate but...

This is the law of the old covanent(testament). The Old Testament was God's origional plan for salvation, which was maily exclusive to the Jews.

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Not according to dorkrod... :)

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Oops! I should have posted that a bit earlier. That'll teach me to go and do other things after previewing a message...

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This signature has performed an illegal operation and has been shut down.

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I won't go into another religious debate but...

This is the law of the old covanent(testament). The Old Testament was God's origional plan for salvation, which was maily exclusive to the Jews.

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Not at all, Nate, salvation is barely an issue in the OT scriptures. You're just looking at things through Christian-tinted glasses :-)

Personal salvation is not a hot issue among the Jews; rather, societal salvation is. If you read, for example, the book of Judges, it's full of tales how when the Israelites are righteous, they prosper, and when they are not, they suffer. While much Christian belief in a Messiah (societal salvation) states that he will arrive to save the world when things are at their worst, the Jewish view is that the Messiah will arrive when things are at their best, when the Jewish people are living properly.

The focus among the Jewish scriptures is a set of commandments that the Jewish people are responsible to live by (with a few exceptions, these responsibilities are not necessarily borne by others). I believe most of the things enumerated in Leviticus, including kosher eating and the bans on homosexual activity fall into this category.

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My current belief is that Jesus came along to deliver the Jews from the Roman occupation (as many other messianic figures of the time) and was executed for sedition. The crucifixion is a big clue. It was a Roman form of punishment reserved for traitors and rebels against the Empire, never a Jewish punishment for blasphemy.

Incidentally, I've long been fascinated by Jewish civilization during the Roman occupation. They'd come a long way since the shepherd nomad days, and were a relatively progressive, cosmopolitan society with highly sophisticated modes of reasoning unknown to Classical philosophy. You can see how little of that survived the destruction of the Temple when you read Paul's attempts at Pharisaic logic. A real Pharisee could think him under the table.

Sometimes I wonder how much culture has been destroyed by conquest. I'm guessing "lots."

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What others say about boorite!

Like Washington, DC.

I think I see your point, which is (if you'll allow my synopsis) that much of the old law is founded on rational expediency. For example, the injunction to keep the Sabbath day holy is rooted in the human need for rest. You don't want to wear out your laborers and slaves to the point where they sicken or rebel or otherwise malfunction. So you say, "God says keep the Sabbath day holy-- no work for you!" And people get to relax. Good for everyone.

To me, this theory explains much, but only so much. In fact, a lot of the laws seem downright irrational. I take particular issue with the examples you gave. I'm confident I can say this without endangering our friendship because: 1) you are a rational person, and 2) you're on another continent, so I won't have to kick your ass (which I couldn't).

So I hope you don't mind my playing Satan's lawyer:

I don't see how. If I may grossly oversimplify: One shot from the love pump supplies a woman with about nine months' worth of genetic material for the purpose of manufacturing offspring. In that time, the same male could theoretically impregnate an additional 270 women, 128 donkeys, 47 altar boys, and 3,000 Kleenexes. So I'm not sure what the "spilling your seed" rules have to do with, but I don't think it's conserving either sperm or men's sexual efforts, neither of which has ever been in short supply.

I think it must have something to do with governing certain inborn sexual/competitive behaviors that worked fine in the Pleistocene but were incompatible with agrarian and (later) mercantile society. Also with ritual purity.

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Looking at it this way, a lot of that Old Testament stuff makes sense - menstruating women could be a genuine helth risk if they did not keep themselves clean

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boorite, are you Satan?

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100 pounds of shit in a 25 pound sack.

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Ich Bin Ein StripCreator

Do do do do do do do Can't touch this!

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I am not 16 going on not 17, I know that I'm naive.

Jesus had a boobie HAHAHAHAHAHA....ah, what I'd give to be mature.

I love Rick James!

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What others say about boorite!

Yay, this thread is all of a sudden becoming educational! Too bad I have to devote my thought-seeds and brain jism towards writing papers or I'd jump in with you all (and get my ass kicked handily).

No, but he has me on retainer. I keep thinking about going to work for the competition, but it's like they want your soul.

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What others say about boorite!

I seem to have killed the fuck out of this topic. It was an accident, I swear.

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What others say about boorite!

Admit it - your dark lord ordered you to, right?

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hmmm...do I even mention that last night the History Channel aired a program claiming that all of Christianity is based on a lie because Jesus Christ actually survived the crucifiction and ran off with Mary Magdelene to France where they settled down and had lots of kids...which would mean that one or more direct decendants of Christ are walking amongst us somewhere...hmmm

I hope I didn't say that out loud just now.

ducks and covers

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If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have no luck at all. D'OH!