Forum archives » Fights Go Here » stripcreator.com is illegal

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thealiasmen
November 5, 2002 6:31 PM

Doesn't Brad know anything about copyright infringement? He's profiting off of your donations, which go to the exploitation of copyrighted cartoon characters.

Does Brad care about this? Does anyone care?

Talk amongst yourselves.

Post #71667link

andydougan
November 5, 2002 6:44 PM

Wrong.

Post #71668link

JrnymnNate
November 5, 2002 6:45 PM

hahahahaha

wait...

No.

Post #71669link

BigEvilDan
November 5, 2002 6:47 PM

You mean the characters he's using with the permission of the artists?

Or is there a secret set of illegal characters that I don't know about?

Post #71670link

punkrockskaboy
November 5, 2002 7:35 PM

First I asked myself if this thread was a joke. Answer, no.

Then I asked if Brad would use characters in such a blatantly obvious fashion without the permission of the artists. Answer, no.

Finally I asked if Alias should be put before us all to be beaten with random foreign objects for badmouthing brad. Answer, yes.

internet connection- 50 dollars
Donation to SC.com- 13 dollars
Being able to watch people stick their foot in their mouth and get ridiculed for it- priceless

Post #71675link

andydougan
November 5, 2002 8:07 PM

Stop talking now.

Post #71680link

Devin
November 5, 2002 11:47 PM

quote:
Or is there a secret set of illegal characters that I don't know about?
To access them, when you're at the comic-making screen, press A, Y, B, select, L, R, L, R, L, X, start.

Post #71695link

thealiasmen
November 6, 2002 7:52 AM

quote:
You mean the characters he's using with the permission of the artists?
Oh my god! You mean Matt Groening gave permission for his artwork?!? Wow. And to think the quality of the Bongo image is so....shitty. Almost like it was horked somewhere.... Then again. Maybe Matt Groening and Brad are bestest buddies.

Even so....Isn't it funny there's no real copyright notice on the site giving proper credit to the artists? Well, there's a very prominent copyright notice on every page stating 'stripcreator is (c) 2002 brad'. But that's not really giving credit to the artists, is it? Oh. I did find a post that's buried within the depths of the forum:

http://www.stripcreator.com/forums/showthread.php?postnum=31567&forum=10

Unfortunatly, this post is really geared towards art that has been DONATED to the site. Donations aren't really in question, now, are they? If you donate art to the site, you are essentially forfeiting your rights to it. But other than your own cartoons, how do you really know what's been donated?

Post #71712link

sumrow
November 6, 2002 7:56 AM

Bestest buddies.

Everyone, I think we owe a big fat show of hands to our new bestest buddy, and big toe, Sergant Smithee.

Post #71713link

Devin
November 6, 2002 8:24 AM

I don't feel guilty.

I haven't donated.

Post #71715link

DragonXero
November 6, 2002 8:37 AM

Hey fucktard, ever consider the fact that we are using the likenesses of these characters in PARODY?
Not to mention, the copyright notice indicates that stripcreator itself is copyright of brad, not the content contained therein.
Get off your moral high horse and come give daddy a nice suckjob.

Ohhh, yeah. That's the stuff. You sure got a purdy mouth.

Post #71716link

DragonXero
November 6, 2002 8:48 AM

Also, you do realize that several people on this site willingly contribute art to the selection of characters, backgrounds, and props on this site, right? Further still, most who contribute actively create art specifically for this site.
I'm proud to say I donated.

Post #71723link

JrnymnNate
November 6, 2002 8:56 AM

What I wanna know is, who cares? Seriously, no one cared until you came along and said "Wait! Stop Everything! This is Wrong!". If it wasn't wrong before, then you've tried to make it wrong now. If you notice on the front page... er, when you look at any comic, it says underneath in clearly visable red text:

stripcreator.com features artwork and characters from:
diesel sweeties | jerkcity | exploding dog | when i grow up | fat jesus | goats | ko fight club | penny arcade | chopping block

So anyway, recognition is given, Brad has permision, no one is selling these things(which, if you had read that thread and the others it came from carefully, you'd see that's what it was about), and everything is peachy.

Hoser.

Post #71725link

DragonXero
November 6, 2002 9:45 AM

Stop making me hate you less, Nate. You cockspank.

Post #71744link

User #16352
November 6, 2002 10:23 AM

quote:
Doesn't Brad know anything about copyright infringement? He's profiting off of your donations, which go to the exploitation of copyrighted cartoon characters.

Does Brad care about this? Does anyone care?

Talk amongst yourselves.


I don't like you.

Post #71758link

thealiasmen
November 6, 2002 10:29 AM

quote:
What I wanna know is, who cares? Seriously, no one cared until you came along and said "Wait! Stop Everything! This is Wrong!".
My point exactly.

So far no one has provided any solid answers to my questions. Parody? How is using Bongo as a character in your own comic strip considered "fair use" parody of Life in Hell? Give me a fucking break. You're taking someone else's character and using it for your own personal expression, and calling it your own creation. (c)2002 .

I'm not talking about donations. Never was. Donations are given freely, and copyright laws wouldn't apply.

As for the "stripcreator.com features artwork and characters from..." tagline, again I ask that you give me an f-ing break. Why isn't Life in Hell listed there? Is Brad afraid to list it, because he doesn't have permission? This is a golden advertising opportunity! List Matt Groening's name on the list, and watch the site's credibility and popularity grow! Yeah. Riiiight.

Please, continue the beatings. I like this Fight Club forum! Get your manly/adolescent agressions out. I'll be your huckleberry!

Post #71762link

wirthling
November 6, 2002 10:41 AM

I've always wondered about the Matt Groening thing, but I recall previous discussions (that are probably old enough that they are gone now--brad doesn't save everything) where brad has discussed getting permission from several of the artists. There would really be no point in lying to us about it, would there? Who's to say Matt Groening didn't actually reply to brad and give permission?

Post #71763link

evil_d
November 6, 2002 11:02 AM

If thealiasmen were genuinely concerned about copyright issues on this site, he might have posted something in "Bug Reports and Suggestions", or better yet e-mailed Brad personally, and opened his comments with something like "I'm concerned about what seems to be a potential copyright infringement issue on this site." He might even have spent enough time looking around the site to find the abovementioned tagline. Instead, he started a thread in "Fights Go Here", condemned the owner and users of this site without first gathering appropriate information, has been very argumentative and angry in all of his posts, and has encouraged others to respond in kind. This is because he is a troll. Please stop feeding the troll.

Post #71764link

gabe_billings
November 6, 2002 11:04 AM

quote:
Doesn't Brad know anything about copyright infringement? He's profiting off of your donations, which go to the exploitation of copyrighted cartoon characters.

Does Brad care about this? Does anyone care?

Talk amongst yourselves.



First, this is a valid question. You might have asked in a slightly less accusatory tone, though. 'Stripcreator is Illegal' is a little harsh.

Yes, Brad is certainly aware about copyright infringement. He did get permission before using almost all of the artwork on Stripcreator. Hence the stripcreator.com features artwork and characters from: at the bottom of the comic pages. Maybe he should add Used with permission in there somewhere, but you're the first person I've heard complain. (I use almost all since we're not too sure about the Life in Hell stuff. If it makes a slight moral difference, those were taken from someone else who did the actual stealing.)

As far as profiting from our donations, he certainly isn't raking in the bucks. I'm pretty sure that on the average, monthly donations cover bandwidth charges with maybe a few bucks left over for nachos. He sure isn't driving around in a Mercedes paid for with his mad phat Stripcreator money.

So do I care that among the hundreds of pictures which he has permission to use float a couple that were swiped? Not in the least. Just about every other site I see is rife with plagarism and images taken from elsewhere. Is it right just because everyone else does it? No. But I still really don't care.

Brad put a lot of effort into making something that an awful lot of people enjoy, and I fully support him. Until, of course, he steals from me.

Then I'll break his kneecaps.

Post #71765link

gabe_billings
November 6, 2002 11:10 AM

quote:
This is because he is a troll. Please stop feeding the troll.

I'm not sure if I agree with that. You have to admit, the 'Fights Go Here' forum was a pretty good place to stick this.

Well thealiasmen, what do you have to say? Are you interested in finding answers to your questions? Or are you just here to annoy people?

Post #71767link

DragonXero
November 6, 2002 11:12 AM

And I'll hold him down for you.
But for now, let's smite the dissenter.

Post #71768link

Brad
November 6, 2002 11:24 AM

I got the Life In Hell graphics off of this Life In Hell fan page and another one I can't find again, back when I was writing Stripcreator almost two years ago. The graphics fit the engine and I figured more people would see those fan pages than would ever see my dumb comic creating site, so I didn't see the harm.

I still don't see the harm. But regardless, to avoid further issues, I've removed the 'lifeinhell' category from the make a comic engine. Old comics with Bongo will still work, but I'll be happy to replace those graphics with some similar but legally different enough bunny if I'm asked to by the copyright holder.

Post #71773link

DragonXero
November 6, 2002 11:48 AM

Hey, thealiasmen, WELL DONE. You have completed your mission, now go play hide and go FUCK YOURSELF. I'm certain you will not be wanted here now.

Post #71775link

afroninja
November 6, 2002 12:26 PM

Hey aliasmen -- since you've now deprived us of our beloved copyrighted material, perhaps you can produce an alternative?

Post #71779link

JrnymnNate
November 6, 2002 12:43 PM

shooot, I was going to use bongo to represent alies.

Post #71780link

KajunFirefly
November 6, 2002 1:39 PM

100186

Post #71785link

gabe_billings
November 6, 2002 1:40 PM

/me busts a 40 of OE on Bongo's grave.

Post #71786link

andydougan
November 6, 2002 1:47 PM

He's still in the engine, though, just not on the menu. With my l33t skills, I just made this hilarious comic.

100187

Post #71789link

ladyjdotnet
November 6, 2002 1:58 PM

100195

Post #71791link

Brad
November 6, 2002 2:02 PM

quote:
He's still in the engine, though, just not on the menu. With my l33t skills, I just made this hilarious comic.

100187


And now I guess I have to put blocks in.

Post #71792link

andydougan
November 6, 2002 2:08 PM

Please, no!

Post #71794link

weedleweedle
November 6, 2002 3:40 PM

quote:
Doesn't Brad know anything about copyright infringement? He's profiting off of your donations, which go to the exploitation of copyrighted cartoon characters.

Does Brad care about this? Does anyone care?

Talk amongst yourselves.



@ FIRTS I WAS GONG TO AGREE W U

BUT THEN I REEEEEEEEEEAD THIS COMIX:

99960

UR A CPOY WRITE BRAKER 2! I HOPE U GO TO JALE CPOY WRITE BRAKER.

Post #71799link

weedleweedle
November 6, 2002 3:42 PM

ONO I HAVE 2 GO 2 JAEL!

84671

Post #71800link

ObiJo
November 6, 2002 3:48 PM

I want bongo back. I want to be the one who gets bongo back. I want to be who gets a ticker-tape parade for getting bongo back. I want to be the one bought drinks and hookers at every stripcreator meet for that great day I got bong back.

But mostly I just want bongo back.

The entire bredth of my copyright knowledge was gained in the last hour from here.

From that page:

quote:
Court's are more likely to find a parody to be a fair use, that is, non-infringing or diluting, if the parody appears in a traditional medium of protected free speech, finding such use to be "noncommercial". For example, the First Circuit reversed the district court's finding of dilution against High Society magazine's 2-page feature "L.L. Beam's Back to School Sex Catalog," depicting models in sexually explicit positions, holding that the article was protected as a noncommercial, editorial or artistic parody.

It offends the Constitution . . . to invoke the anti-dilution statute as a basis for enjoining the noncommercial use of a trademark by a defendant engaged in a protected form of expression.



A protected form of expression. That's the key right there. Copyright law has always been a battle betweeen two entities: the rights of ownership, and the freedom of expression. And courts have stumbled around clumsily trying to define the balance that will throw these two entities into equilibrium with each other. Courts have overriden each other, contradicted each other, nullified and reversed each other, the whole time blindly groping for this balance.

Except in one case. In one case, the courts have been very consistent. Freedom of expression, without dilution to a trademark, and with no intent of commercial gain is ALWAYS LEGAL.

ALWAYS.

Now let's apply this specifically to stripcreator. Freedom of expression. Who's doing that? You, me, Country Joe and the Fish, and anyone else that wanders upon the site. Do we, THE ONES EXPRESSING OURSELVES, expect any financial gain from making these comics? HELL NO! It's wholly and completely about expression, not about commercial gain. This is the key!

You can say, well Brad's making money off Bongo. Well, that's flawed. First off, he's facilitating freedom of expression THAT HAS EXPRESSION AND NOT COMMERCIAL GAIN as its primary goal, and for this he's making money. By proxy then, he's protected by copyright law. But ignoring this, what is Brad's intention? Do you think he does this site to rake in the money or to let people express themselves? It's obvious to anyone that knows him and the site that he's doing it for expression.

From that site again:

quote:
L.L. Bean, Inc., 811 F.2d at 32.
In support of its conclusion that the defendant's use was noncommercial (and therefore entitled to a more heighten level of protection than would be afforded to commercial speech), the First Circuit pointed to use of the labels "parody" and "humor" in the magazine's table of contents; that the L.L. Bean mark and the article were not mentioned on the magazine's front or back cover; that the article took up only two pages of a hundred page issue; and that the defendant was not selling any of the products shown in the article.

If this isn't a direct correlative to stripcreator, I don't know what is. Think about it, the court said that the High Society article wasn't copyright infringement because it identified itself as "humor", that the article was not mentioned as a means to sell the magazine (same as stripcreator not mentioning Groening and drawing in increased traffic off his name), that the article took up only two pages of a hundred page issue (bongo is one character of hundreds here), and that High Society wasn't selling any of the products shown in the article (just as brad's made it a point to not sell any merchandise other than those featuring Three Reasons - which is public domain). I mean, by christ, that case goes directly to stripcreator.

The only two things that might negate this are parody and dilution. First off, is the bongo character being used in parody or comment on its original source. Hell no, thealiasmen says! To which I counter

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The point, if not now mind-numbingly clear, is that bongo CAN be used for parody and HAS been for parody consistently. I mean, check the dates of the above comics. They span the entire existence of stripcreator. Why? BECAUSE WHEN SOMEONE SEES BONGO, THEY THINK MATT GROENING!

This goes directly to the dilution argument -- two kinds of people come to the site. Ones who know bongo previously, and ones who don't. For the former, bongo is immediately seen as a source of parody. The latter, like me when I first came here, just see a one-eared bunny. He's fun and I use him in comics as a one-eared bunny and make him do one-eared bunny things, and lead his happy frolicky one-eared bunny life. The former is obviously not dilution of the association of bongo with Matt Groening, but the second? Is associating an unknown entity with a false creator dilution? I say no. Here's why -- whether or not stripcreator would have bongo on its site, I would only associate bongo with Matt Groening once seeing him on The Simpson's. So one of two cases - I don't know bongo and see him on The Simpson's and now I know him, OR I know bongo as stripcreator art, see him on The Simpson's and realize, oh stripcreator is using him, but Groening created him. Either way, both are dependent upon me seeing The Simpson's. Two other possibilities exist also - that I'll always know bongo as stripcreator art, which is still not illegal until stripcreator tries to profit from that misconception. And the other possibility, and the one that applies specifically to me, is that stripcreator teaches people that bongo is Groening's art. I've never seen bongo anywhere but here. Never on an episode of The Simpson's. The only way I know he's from the Simpson's is because I've read the parody comics here and heard people talk about it. So, in this case, stripcreator is actually asserting copyright law. Think about it -- if I REALLY like the bongo character on this site, and see that brad isn't using him on any merchandise, I'm heading over to The Simpson's official page and looking for bongo merchandise there. If anything, Groening benefits from stripcreator.

One last point on this - it could rightly be argued that even if using the bongo character in parody strips is legal, but in other ways is not (something I *strongly* disagree with since there's no intent of making money), that Brad's intent could just be to provide bongo as a source for parody. He's posting the bongo art so that people can parody The Simpson's, and when they do, cool. When they don't, though, he's still not liable, since his intent in posting the bongo art at a free site, was only to provide strippers the ability to parody The Simpsons.

Something to keep in mind.

quote:
Another example of the broader scope allowed trademark parody in a noncommercial context is Cliffs Notes, Inc. v. Bantam Doubleday Dell Publishing Corp., 886 F.2d. 490 (2d Cir. 1989), which involved the use by the publisher of Spy Magazine of the cover design elements of Cliffs Notes for tongue-in-cheek parody called "Spy Notes." Reversing the district courts injunction based on a likelihood of confusion, the Court stated that a greater risk of confusion must be allowed for works such as parodies, in which expression, and not commercial exploitation, is the primary intent. Id. at 497.

The value of free speech was also acknowledged by the court in Mutual of Omaha, normally cited for the proposition that a disparaging parody of a company's trademark ("Mutant of Omaha") on a commercial product such as tee-shirts should be enjoined. The same court noted that the parody could be used, for example, on anti-nuclear pamphlets, a traditional means of free-speech. 836 F.2d at 403 n. 8.



Just further proof that when expression, and not commercial gain, is the primary intent, the court's nearly unanimously favor free expression over property rights.

It's your choice obviously, Brad, since you're the one who'll have to bite the bullet should anything come down. Just honestly consider it, because though I know it's murky water, I strongly believe that having the bongo art on stripcreator is in no way a copyright infringement.

Post #71803link

KajunFirefly
November 6, 2002 4:25 PM

*applaudes Obi*

Can't we contact the 'Life in Hell' guys and ask them what their views are?

Post #71808link

dcomposed
November 6, 2002 4:41 PM

quote:
Old comics with Bongo will still work, but I'll be happy to replace those graphics with some similar but legally different enough bunny if I'm asked to by the copyright holder.
How's this?



wait.. I've already proven I can't draw.

Post #71809link

ladyjdotnet
November 6, 2002 5:48 PM

Well, that's great dcom, but there are plenty of jokes that refer to Bongo's ONE EAR.

Obi: kudos for all your work... but brad was pruning the art to make room for new stuff anyway, and of all the stuff that could be nixed, I'll miss bongo the least.

Let's just move on. Take the wind out of the original poster's sails by not making this a big deal.

Post #71810link

ObiJo
November 6, 2002 6:07 PM

quote:
Well, that's great dcom, but there are plenty of jokes that refer to Bongo's ONE EAR.
Ditto.

quote:
Obi: kudos for all your work... but brad was pruning the art to make room for new stuff anyway,
Last I heard, he was only thinking about taking out backgrounds. And if he did decide to remove characters, I'd think he'd want to put it up to a vote to the regs -- 4 characters have to go, let's pick one -- rather than have that decision thrust upon him by a misrepresentation of copyright law.

quote:
and of all the stuff that could be nixed, I'll miss bongo the least.
Yes, but that's you. Doesn't really matter to the rest of us what you think of a character, just what we each think. Which further illustrates the fairness of a vote.

quote:
Let's just move on. Take the wind out of the original poster's sails by not making this a big deal.
This isn't a power struggle. I'm not looking to take wind out of anyone's sails. I couldn't give a damn about one-upping the original poster or him one-upping me. This is about an issue. About a comic group that is now missing from the make-a-comic page.

Post #71813link

andydougan
November 6, 2002 6:19 PM

Just one last note: if bongo's removal is inevitable (I hope it's not), then I'd suggest replacing him, retroactively, with another character. bongo is central to a story of which I'm in the middle, so it would be better for me, at least, if every prior instance of the character were replaced by another graphic that we could still use. Not that there's any special reason that should count.

Anyway. Back to curing cancer.

Post #71814link

gabe_billings
November 6, 2002 6:34 PM

If I ever get put on trial I want counselor Obi to represent me.

Post #71818link

dcomposed
November 6, 2002 7:24 PM

quote:
Well, that's great dcom, but there are plenty of jokes that refer to Bongo's ONE EAR.
Wait.. was this supposed to be like "dcom, your a fucking idiot".. or "Nice try dcom, but you're a fucking idiot".
The capitals on the last two words confused me.

Post #71821link

punkrockskaboy
November 6, 2002 8:28 PM

quote:
but there are plenty of jokes that refer to Bongo's ONE EAR.
quote:

That thing was an EAR!?! :)

Post #71826link

kaufman
November 6, 2002 9:07 PM

quote:
Just one last note: if bongo's removal is inevitable (I hope it's not), then I'd suggest replacing him, retroactively, with another character. bongo is central to a story of which I'm in the middle, so it would be better for me, at least, if every prior instance of the character were replaced by another graphic that we could still use. Not that there's any special reason that should count.
Just replace him with the new bunny character (plastic surgery), with height2 (he followed in the footsteps of his Uncle Harvey), or with dexx-skeleton (bongmoh!)

Post #71831link

kaufman
November 6, 2002 9:11 PM

quote:
Well, that's great dcom, but there are plenty of jokes that refer to Bongo's ONE EAR.
And why do you think he has that one ear? Look at his name. Bongo. Bon-go. Bon-Gogh. That's right, he's a parody of a real person, dead over a century, and thus the lone ear is public domain!

Post #71833link

ladyjdotnet
November 6, 2002 9:30 PM

quote:
quote:
Well, that's great dcom, but there are plenty of jokes that refer to Bongo's ONE EAR.
Wait.. was this supposed to be like "dcom, your a fucking idiot".. or "Nice try dcom, but you're a fucking idiot".
The capitals on the last two words confused me.

Neither, really. It was, "I appreciate your effort, dcom, but you overlooked a point, which I'll put in all caps so as to call your attention to it."

Post #71838link

ladyjdotnet
November 6, 2002 9:40 PM

quote:
Last I heard, he was only thinking about taking out backgrounds. And if he did decide to remove characters, I'd think he'd want to put it up to a vote to the regs -- 4 characters have to go, let's pick one -- rather than have that decision thrust upon him by a misrepresentation of copyright law.

Well, he didn't put it to a vote for deciding which backgrounds to nix, he just nixed them. Brad isn't really so much the put-it-to-a-vote sort. So far he's just done what he sees as working, and it always has worked out fine. Since it's his site, I have no gripes. Also, during a conversation on the irc channel, he did discuss the possibility of removing some characters. I suggested temporarily removing a few at random and bringing them back every so often like Baskin Robbins flavors, and he seemed to kind of like the idea.

And yes, I see your point about choice vs. coersion. I also agree, in theory. I just don't see it as that big a loss in this particular case.

I also understand your point about that being my opinion. I agree. It's my opinion. That's why I expressed it as such. You really don't need to slap me down with:

quote:
Doesn't really matter to the rest of us what you think of a character, just what we each think.

...but if it makes you feel like a better person to belittle my opinions, more power to ya.

Post #71840link

wirthling
November 6, 2002 10:27 PM

I would just like to point out to Professor Pointyhead that Bongo is from Groening's pre-Simpsons comic strip, "Life in Hell," and has never been on the Simpsons (as far as I know). Otherwise, great post...

Post #71846link

thealiasmen
November 6, 2002 10:45 PM

There is no denying that stripcreator.com is a cool website. I've never seen anything like it, and I bet you haven't either. What's more impressive is the success this site has achieved over the past, what, two years? Look how many members there are. Look how many comic strips have been posted. Pretty impressive if you ask me, and it's all well deserved. No sarcasm here, just stating some obvious facts. But I did wonder why Brad would want to take any risks with his success by allowing registered members of the site to make unauthorized use of copyrighted cartoon characters. I also thought that it doesn't look that Brad gives special prominence on the site to comic strips containing unauthorized copyrighted characters in exchange for "donations". It gives the appearance of impropriety. And I also wondered if any of the members cared about any of this.

This is why I posted the topic. Not to troll. Not to make any attempts at being high-and-mighty. Not to prove anything. Not to get Brad to instantly remove Bongo from the site. I honestly wanted to know if anyone had given any thought to the matter of copyright.

Truth be told, I was going to post the topic in the 'suggestions' or 'general discussion' forums with the humble title or opening of 'copyright question'. But then my cynical side kicked-in and I feared that the topic would garner zero interest if I posted in those forums. Experience and age plays dirty tricks on your mind. I almost didn't post it at all. But much to your dismay, I saw the 'Fights Go Here/Say Hello to Anger' forum and couldn't resist. I turned the emotional dial of my post up to 'anger', and hoped to get a response. Well, butter my ass and call me a biscuit! I guess the anger worked. Why don't discussion boards on other sites have a 'Fights Go Here' forum? Probably to keep people like me out, I guess.

Anyway, on to the muckraking.

quote:
The entire bredth of my copyright knowledge was gained in the last hour from here.
ObiJo, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but citing arbitrary excerpts from one web page you read in an hour does not go very far to convince me that copyright violation has not occured.

A copyright gives the owner five exclusive rights. These are the exclusive rights to reproduce, adapt, publicly distribute copies of, publicly display, and publicly perform the copyrighted work. If anyone else exercises one of these exclusive rights without authorization, that person is considered an infringer and is liable to the owner. Also, keep in mind that to prove infringement it doesn't have to be shown that the entire work was copied. If only 25 percent of the work were copied onto another work, or perhaps even only 10 percent, there may still be infringement. Thus, all the rumors about changing works 10 percent or 20 percent to avoid liability are completely false.

"But what about fair use?" you ask.

If you want to use someone else's work and have a fair use defense, then put the creator's copyright notice and credits on those portions of the work you have copied (if doing so doesn't harm the creator's reputation by presenting his/her credits out of context). This way you won't be engaged in plagiarism, and you protect the author's interests as the original creator and copyright holder. What is fair use is rarely clear-cut, and each case stands on its own merits. If you don't believe you have a fair use defense, then it's best just to ask for permission.

One last thought. The principal purpose of copyright law is not to protect artists, writers, and other creative persons, or even to protect their publishers, but rather to promote the arts and other creative activities. The United States Constitution gives Congress the right to enact patent and copyright laws in order to:

quote:
promote the Progress of Science and Useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.
Artists, writers, and their publishers own copyrights, but it is society that ultimately benefits from protection for individuals. After all, if creative persons and their publishers were not given exclusive rights to publish their works, artists and expecially writers would be discouraged from producing works because anyone else could copy and profit from them. Also, publishers would not invest money in publishing works that could be immediately pirated by rivals. The theory is that giving exclusive publication rights to creative persons will encourage them and their publishers to produce more works.

:D

Post #71848link

afroninja
November 6, 2002 10:59 PM

I just wanted to say that it's particularly funny that artistic types take out their aggressions via art. They have that old, "If you piss me off, I'll draw you like a ninny" complex.

That's funny to me.

Post #71849link

wirthling
November 6, 2002 11:09 PM

quote:
...blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...

Well, blah blah blah blah blah!

(OK, I really wanted to add something intelligent but I don't have the energy right now...)

Post #71851link

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