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graykane
February 22, 2004 8:33 PM

i'm totally f'd up by the concept of a Christian Goth. this isn't really a fight i'm picking as much as a confusion i need straightened out, but since i know it's going to offend, i've decided to put it here.

in literature, gothicism criticized christianity-- predominantly catholicism-- namely for its focus on human suffering & torturous self-negation. so, in the 18th and 19th centuries (during the "crisis of faith" in England), authors depicted haunted castles modeled after gothic cathedrals-- hence the name "gothic." vampires were a crack at catholics drinking the blood of christ. zombies and dr. frankenstein's creature were caught between life and death-- among other things, a mock at the inability to live life without focussing on death and afterlife. in other words, at very least in its origin and throughout most of its development, gothicism is very very very sacreligious.

so why the heck are there young little christians running around infatuated with vampires and being immortally dead and calling themselves "goths"???!?!

i'm so confused. will someone, hopefully a christian goth, come and straighten this out for me. thanks.

Post #125306

dcomposed February 22, 2004 9:28 PM	quote: so why the heck are there young little christians running around infatuated with vampires and being immortally dead and calling themselves "goths"???!? Because they don't know FUCKING EVERYTHING like you do.
Post #125308	link

graykane February 22, 2004 10:10 PM	quote: Because they don't know FUCKING EVERYTHING like you do. 1. ouch. 2. if so many christians are making a big f'n deal about Harry Potter being sacreligious, then wouldn't you think they'd make the same deal over being goth? i don't think you have to be a cliff claven like me to think along those lines. right?
Post #125312	link

graykane February 22, 2004 11:16 PM	look. obviously i went about this all wrong. let's look at it this way: vampires die from crosses. that's why i'm so confused by christian goths.
Post #125317	link

dcomposed February 22, 2004 11:46 PM	quote: a cliff claven like me Lewl. I didn't mean it like that, it does actually seem like you know everything.
Post #125318	link

User #16352 February 23, 2004 4:46 AM	quote: Goths Go Here
Post #125338	link

OMG_DaGmAr_6481987
February 23, 2004 7:36 AM

Okay. As I am considered a Christian Goth at school, I shall try to explain this the best I can. I am not really a Goth in the sense of vampires and all that, but I happen to be part of an offshoot of the goths, called the freaks, for that reason. I don't believe in vampires or drinking blood or all that, I just dress in black with spikes because I like it. I happen to look into the darker side of things and hang out with people who believe the same. I don't think there really is such thing as a "Christian Goth", because of this fact. Our "goths" at school that are Christians are more along the lines of freaks, such as myself. I hope this helped clear it up a little bit. Clear as mud, right? =)

Post #125363

MikeyG February 23, 2004 8:53 AM	You truly sound like a git.
Post #125382	link

graykane
February 23, 2004 8:54 AM

quote:
I am not really a Goth in the sense of vampires and all that, but I happen to be part of an offshoot of the goths, called the freaks, for that reason.... I just dress in black with spikes because I like it. I happen to look into the darker side of things and hang out with people who believe the same. I don't think there really is such thing as a "Christian Goth", because of this fact. Our "goths" at school that are Christians are more along the lines of freaks, such as myself. I hope this helped clear it up a little bit.

yeah, actually that helped a lot. i was just reading online about all the offshoots of goths as well as how other non-goth groups have incoporated gothic images and tastes into their subcultures, so i guess it's kind of like that. the goth movement is being absorbed by other subcultures, and thus, the originary "social movement" doesn't always appear along with its name-- like with the term "punk."

thanks, OMG_DaGmAr. i tried looking up the freaks, but the word's impossible to google. can you tell me anything else about them?

Post #125383

User #16352 February 23, 2004 10:07 AM	quote: I don't believe in vampires or drinking blood or all that, I just dress in black with spikes because I like it. Sounds like a Goth to me.
Post #125392	link

xxausrottenxx February 23, 2004 11:03 AM	christian goths is a really big oxymoron, kinda like the CIA
Post #125412	link

PhreakyChinchilla
February 23, 2004 11:38 AM

quote:
quote:
I don't believe in vampires or drinking blood or all that, I just dress in black with spikes because I like it.
Sounds like a Goth to me.

Sounds like S&M. h4w h4w!!!

Seriously though...

I agree with ausrotten 100%. I don't believe you can classify yourself as "goth" and "Christian" together. You sound like a freak who attends Sunday School and church, to me.

And I don't mean that in a mean way.

Why do we have to label every little "genre" anyway? So you like to wear black. I like to eat in the nude. We're even, so let's leave it at that.

Post #125416

xxausrottenxx February 23, 2004 11:54 AM	i wear black because its slimming
Post #125418	link

laughinginyourface February 23, 2004 1:37 PM	People call me goth sometimes because of the music I listen to. (Cradle of Filth and such) Also, christian goth may not be an oxymoron if you're refering to the germanic Goth civilization. You know Alaric? He was a goth.
Post #125426	link

boorite February 23, 2004 2:33 PM	I'm a Shiite Muslim Punk Rocker
Post #125433	link

jes_lawson February 23, 2004 5:43 PM	quote: I'm a Shiite Muslim Punk Rocker You put an extra 'i' in there, fella.
Post #125454	link

areallystupidguy February 23, 2004 6:53 PM	i don't usually wear black very much, but i consider myself goth because people suck and i want them to die. it's all about where your mind is set. i also listen to the cure and bauhaus too much.
Post #125464	link

OMG_DaGmAr_6481987 February 23, 2004 7:16 PM	Heh. What else is there to know? It's really just a little social group at my school that hangs around in black. It's not really a "cult" or a "vampyric" thing. Just what we like to wear and how we like to act. And if "git" is the proper name for this group (haha, Mikey), then so be it. Really. I don't see the need to judge based on what people wear.
Post #125467	link

graykane February 23, 2004 8:29 PM	quote: i also listen to the cure and bauhaus too much. bauhaus? that's a name from the past! i saw peter murphy in concert over ten years ago. that dramatic bastard kicks ass. is that fucker still rocking? he must be rocking from the grave.
Post #125477	link

DragonXero
February 24, 2004 4:42 AM

quote:
Heh. What else is there to know? It's really just a little social group at my school that hangs around in black. It's not really a "cult" or a "vampyric" thing. Just what we like to wear and how we like to act. And if "git" is the proper name for this group (haha, Mikey), then so be it. Really. I don't see the need to judge based on what people wear.

Sounds like a traditional goth to me.

All this "vampyre" crap came in later. Goth used to just be an attitude, a style, and a musical taste. The "goths" these days try to make a bigger deal out of it than they should.

I like a lot of gothic and gothic metal bands. The Cure, Type-O, Cradle of Filth, Tristania, Theatre of Tragedy, Therion, Nevermore and so on. I wear a lot of black. I tend to look on the dark side of life. Am I a goth? I don't think so. I don't always wear black, but that doesn't mean I'm not goth. I listen to stuff other than goth music, even They Might Be Giants.

But in any case, you're more like a goth than these little kiddies who think that listening to Slipknot and worshipping satan while wearing black shirts and complaining about life makes them goth.

Post #125505

graykane February 24, 2004 4:56 AM	i remember the vampire stuff being very alive and well in 1989/1990. it just wasn't japanese inflected at that point. in fact, both The Lost Boys and Vampire's Kiss were immediate goth favorites when they came out-- the latter film causing a lot of biting at my high school.
Post #125507	link

kramer_vs_kramer February 24, 2004 5:08 AM	This poster appeared for a while next to Glasgow's big goth club. And the humourless bastards actually complained.
Post #125510	link

Drexle
February 24, 2004 5:34 AM

quote:
This poster appeared for a while next to Glasgow's big goth club.

And the humourless bastards actually complained.

I'd complain too, but mainly because that's some stupid advertising, there. That's like an ad for a weight loss center right outside a McDonalds that says "Hey, fatass! Get in shape at Snarky's Fitness center!" Or an ad in the middle of a hispanic neighborhood that says "Hey, wetback! Cut the siesta and get to work every morning by drinking Smartass brand coffee!"

You don't generally sell a lot of product by insulting your potential customers, especially ones who mostly band together because they feel like the outside world does nothing but insult them in the first place.

Post #125512

kramer_vs_kramer
February 24, 2004 6:06 AM

quote:
ones who mostly band together because they feel like the outside world does nothing but insult them in the first place.

It's a chicken and egg scenario, though. Do they feel the world is insulting them because they are goths, or did they become goths because they feel the world is insulting them.

Frankly, I don't get it. Goths seem to be revelling in some form of directionless angst purely for the sake of it. Wallowing never helped anyone.

Post #125513

OMG_DaGmAr_6481987
February 24, 2004 7:03 AM

quote:
quote:
ones who mostly band together because they feel like the outside world does nothing but insult them in the first place.

It's a chicken and egg scenario, though. Do they feel the world is insulting them because they are goths, or did they become goths because they feel the world is insulting them.

Frankly, I don't get it. Goths seem to be revelling in some form of directionless angst purely for the sake of it. Wallowing never helped anyone.

I don't feel insulted at all by people. I sometimes think it's funny that I will walk by a group of people and they go quiet, and when they think I'm out of range, they start whispering. It's hilarious. If I were "insulted," as you say, I wouldn't be a "goth," and I'd try and be like everyone else and wear clothing from Goody's. It seems like "goth" has become a weird fashion statement, with Hot Topic being the ONLY store that goths want to shop at. I enjoy being different and saving money, so I shop at Wal-Mart.

Post #125519

Drexle
February 24, 2004 8:21 AM

quote:
It's a chicken and egg scenario, though. Do they feel the world is insulting them because they are goths, or did they become goths because they feel the world is insulting them.

With the ones I've met and know, it's generally the former.

quote:
Frankly, I don't get it. Goths seem to be revelling in some form of directionless angst purely for the sake of it. Wallowing never helped anyone.

You don't have to be a goth to wallow in directionless angst, and you don't have to wallow in directionless angst if you're a goth. Some people are pessimists. Some people like to dress freaky. Some people are pessimists who like to dress freaky. Mostly, it's just that they feel that it's an aesthetic or an outlook they more identify with than other outlooks or aesthetics. Personally, I think that group dynamics often manage to bring out the worst in people, and goths are no exception.

Post #125531

flickguy February 24, 2004 10:16 AM	People are stupid and should be rounded up and kept away from me. Thank you.
Post #125555	link

attitudechicka
February 24, 2004 11:28 AM

The way I see it, because I've only ever encountered "goths" in high schools, is that they're a clique. Just a group of friends who share something in common: black clothes and makeup. I'm not sure they really know anything about each other beyond that, they hardly seem to speak a word to each other.

However, in my school, "freaks" were a clique who did things out of the ordinary. For example, my "freak" friend once came to school dressed in a nightgown. They were very social and mostly just did it for comedic attention.

The "goths" I've come in contact with seem like they're seeking attention as well (we also called them "artistic"). It's the peacock thing. Dress in your best and attract a mate. Because, seriously, it seemed like the more makeup the guys threw on, the more the girls swooned. Then they found out they were the same kind of jerks the jocks are, just looking for a quick lay.

Post #125561

MikeyG February 24, 2004 11:49 AM	quote: People are stupid and should be rounded up and kept away from me. Thank you. The dichotomy of man in plain text. I don't want people to suffer needlessly and I beleve people deserve unalienable rights, etc. But I mostly want people to leave me alone. In the immortal words of boorite, you can all blow me.
Post #125562	link

OMG_DaGmAr_6481987
February 24, 2004 12:45 PM

quote:
However, in my school, "freaks" were a clique who did things out of the ordinary. For example, my "freak" friend once came to school dressed in a nightgown. They were very social and mostly just did it for comedic attention.

Yes. At my school we do freaky things too, like one time we all came to school wearing 3 party hats each, doing a mohawk thing with them. And another time I had bright green nail polish that I wore for 2 weeks. I don't really do it for comedic attention, nor am I very social, but it's just one of those things that is like "well, I wonder what would happen if..."

Post #125573

areallystupidguy February 24, 2004 3:58 PM	quote: one time we all came to school wearing 3 party hats each, doing a mohawk thing with them. that is the coolest idea ever. i'm doing that tomorrow.
Post #125593	link

OMG_DaGmAr_6481987 February 24, 2004 6:25 PM	Wow. That's the second time anyone's tried to copy my style. The first time was when someone came to school wearing black boots like mine with orange shoelaces in them like mine. She stopped after a couple of days, but that is my signature style.
Post #125604	link

xxausrottenxx February 24, 2004 6:36 PM	my style is crotchless panties
Post #125607	link

OMG_DaGmAr_6481987 February 24, 2004 6:59 PM	Err...ok. For you or for your significant other?
Post #125613	link

theviciousanarchist
February 24, 2004 7:38 PM

vas ist das style? I actually could be qualified as this so-called "goth". I wouldn't like it, I'd kick your fucking face in, actually. I know someone with the same attitude. Also, Dagmar, my friends and I do stupid shits like that too. Ah, that classic time when they all went to school wearing little pink bunny ears... that was hilarious. they do it for the great hilarity later. Either that, or all that weed they smoke, haha. Hm. My style is two different coloured Converse shoes, or a Converse shoe, and a steel-toed combat boot. Or just the boots. ahhahahaha.

Post #125617

MikeyG February 25, 2004 6:45 AM	The simple fact that any of you are here debating your 'style' makes you all posers.
Post #125654	link

Rabid_Weasle February 25, 2004 5:10 PM	Maybe their style is poser.
Post #125718	link

laughinginyourface February 25, 2004 5:38 PM	Maybe poser is style.
Post #125720	link

OMG_DaGmAr_6481987 February 25, 2004 6:01 PM	Actually, I'm not a poser, I just like my orange shoelaces and I felt like I might want to tell my point of view because someone asked what a Christian Goth was.
Post #125724	link

xxausrottenxx February 25, 2004 6:03 PM	i may be a poseur, but im not a poser, i hate having my picture taken
Post #125725	link

theviciousanarchist February 25, 2004 6:07 PM	maybe we don't try to be anything, we just try to do whatever we want to...
Post #125727	link

attitudechicka
February 25, 2004 7:24 PM

quote:
Actually, I'm not a poser, I just like my orange shoelaces and I felt like I might want to tell my point of view because someone asked what a Christian Goth was.

In essence, you have admitted there is no such thing as a "Christian Goth" when you said you were a "freak".

quote:
maybe we don't try to be anything, we just try to do whatever we want to...

You have to TRY to do what you want to do? Furthermore, are you or are you not classifying yourself as "goth" in this thread? If the answer is yes, you're trying to be something.

Post #125730

MikeyG
February 26, 2004 7:54 AM

quote:
quote:
Actually, I'm not a poser, I just like my orange shoelaces and I felt like I might want to tell my point of view because someone asked what a Christian Goth was.

In essence, you have admitted there is no such thing as a "Christian Goth" when you said you were a "freak".

quote:
maybe we don't try to be anything, we just try to do whatever we want to...

You have to TRY to do what you want to do? Furthermore, are you or are you not classifying yourself as "goth" in this thread? If the answer is yes, you're trying to be something.

Chicka rules.

Post #125788

childofthecorn254 February 26, 2004 5:07 PM	quote: maybe we don't try to be anything, we just try to do whatever we want to... This person isnt trying to be anything. Theyre just saying that people do wat they like.
Post #125837	link

areallystupidguy February 26, 2004 5:30 PM	i don't have a style. is that bad?
Post #125839	link

xxausrottenxx February 26, 2004 5:31 PM	yes
Post #125841	link

theviciousanarchist February 26, 2004 5:53 PM	Wow, at least one person understands what I was implying...
Post #125847	link

OMG_DaGmAr_6481987
February 26, 2004 6:14 PM

quote:
quote:
Actually, I'm not a poser, I just like my orange shoelaces and I felt like I might want to tell my point of view because someone asked what a Christian Goth was.

In essence, you have admitted there is no such thing as a "Christian Goth" when you said you were a "freak".

quote:
maybe we don't try to be anything, we just try to do whatever we want to...

You have to TRY to do what you want to do? Furthermore, are you or are you not classifying yourself as "goth" in this thread? If the answer is yes, you're trying to be something.

I have admitted that there is no such thing in my point of view as a "Christian Goth." I didn't say that other thing, but as I feel I need to reply, here it is. I don't try to be anything. I just wear whatever I feel like wearing and therefore ended up in my present group.

Post #125852

DragonXero February 26, 2004 10:32 PM	Christian Goth: Wears a cross Regular Goth: Wears an ankh (which looks like a cross) Any questions?
Post #125873	link

Zaster February 27, 2004 4:37 AM	Where did a bunch of angsty teens find the energy to build all those cathedrals? And where do the Visigoths fit in? How do I tell them apart from Vandals? I can't keep up with all the subcultures these days.
Post #125903	link

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