You actually clicked? Wow, I'm amazed! In any case, this is a little rebuttal. Also, a second choice for you people who actually don't have a problem with this nation, regardless of it's poor leadership and unwashed masses.

You don't have to like Americans to like America.

Uhhh... sorry... I'm looking for Woodshop 101?

I love America. That's why I started that other thread in order to ferret out suspicious elements in our ranks. I am forwarding all activity there to the proper authorities. Praise Jesus and the glorious Dow Jones.

As filthy rich nations with a dichotomous socio-economic structure, cloaked leadership, a fragmented culture and thoroughly dangerous environmental and foreign relations policies go, America is great.

Lemme let you all in on a little secret, this one's just for the Americans who are bitching:

You can leave.

To the rest of you, you're just jealous.

I have a love/hate relationship with America. Which thread should I click on?

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Lemme let you all in on a little secret, this one's just for the Americans who are bitching:

You can leave.

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Lemme let you all in on a little secret, this one's just for the Americans who are bitching:

You can leave.

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Here's a not so big secret:

Having to listen to that jingoistic, "My way or the highway" bullshit is a big part of what America was designed to free people from.

: )

After all, sticking your head in the ground on EITHER side of the fence will only help make what's wrong with this country, get worse.

Ya know?

Wouldn't it be nice to live in America that does what it says on the label?

Just saying "It's still better than Guatemala!" just doesn't quite sound like the American dream, does it?

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The man makes me swoon.

I like America as a friend.

That's because you tried to sleep with America, boinky, and America told you that it didn't feel that way about you.

Bunner is sma'at. 'N stuff.

"My way or the high way", "With us or with the terrorists", and "Disagree and you're a Commie" is exactly the kind of hateful rhetoric that has gotten people like Louis Farrrakhan villified and condemned by all walks of life.

Yet we let members of this administration and countless editorials go running about saying the same thing, and most get pats on the back for their "logic".

Heads in the ground on either side of the fence? At this point we have our heads up each other's asses. Whatever your walk of life or political beliefs, there is no reason why anyone should vote for someone intent on telling people how to live their lives in the privacy of their own homes.

How DARE anyone presume that their God is better than someone else's. How DARE anyone presume that they have the right to tell someone else who they can and can't have consensual sex with. And how dare anyone presume to know the mind of God to know what he/she/it/them does or does not approve of in the first place.

Pardon my diatribes, I am extremely sick of the bullshit and fanfare.

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How DARE anyone presume that their God is better than someone else's.

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I think you're talking about a Buzz Lightyear action figure, here. I may be wrong, but try taking it's batteries out.

If your god is all the sudden as about as useful as titties on a fish, you might want to look into the whole "big white guy with a flowing beard in the sky" thing.

I loved America... and then America broke my heart. :'(

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Lemme let you all in on a little secret, this one's just for the Americans who are bitching:

You can leave.

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Here's a not so big secret:

Having to listen to that jingoistic, "My way or the highway" bullshit is a big part of what America was designed to free people from.

: )

After all, sticking your head in the ground on EITHER side of the fence will only help make what's wrong with this country, get worse.

Ya know?

Wouldn't it be nice to live in America that does what it says on the label?

Just saying "It's still better than Guatemala!" just doesn't quite sound like the American dream, does it?

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After two lay-offs in the past five years, and after dropping almost $30K going back to school only to watch the industry I was training for vaporize (due to outsourcing and a culture of casual deceit among customers, suppliers, bigwigs, and stockholders), I'm probably a little jaded. I don't hate America, but I don't exactly feel like cheerleading anymore either. Our vaunted Democracy increasingly resembles an aristocracy where choice is an illusion, and the middle class is sold out for the short-term benefit of a rich old boy network. When the whole house of cards has imploded, America we'll be a banana republic and the kleptocratic hegemons responsible will have all retired to thier sprawling, manicured estates.

Nah, I don't hate America. That would be like kicking a puppy after someone has already beaten it half to death with a stick.

I don't hate America. I just don't particularly like Americans. I bet bunner and a few others could testify to the fact that in GENERAL, Americans are ignorant fucks. There are TONS of exceptions, and even large areas where this generalization does not apply.

Yet by and large, I'd say people just don't give a shit.

There seems to be a marked lack of a middle class lately. Instead of low-income housing having a distinction between low and qualifying income and non-qualifying income (too high for government subsidy), there are now tiers of low income. Most places now have set rules for picking the lowest income applicants first, but the fact is now there seems to be a much larger gap between the upper and lower classes.

Teh Illuminate pwns j00!!!!111

I love America.

CASE CLOSED!!!

That's more what I figured most people were saying, but just didn't feel like saying "I hate what's happened to America", rather than simply generalizing and saying they hate America itself.

Granted, democracy and capitalism appear to be failing, but this, as I see it, isn't completely true. Too many people are taking advantage of what can be a very good system. Unlike communism, which would require everyone to think essentially the same, and a true theocracy/monarchy which pretty much shits on everyone but those in power, democracy has the possibility of being a good, useful system with the various personalities within it. The system didn't break, the people did.

With increasingly useless interest groups, constant bickering and fighting amongst the people, and an ever-growing rate of population (not helped by illegal immigration), this system, just like any other, is becoming overloaded. There is only a certain number of people who can be governed by a single government, it seems, and the leaders who inherited once revered and loved positions now take advantage of this disarray, thus causing heavy damage to the social and economic welfare of our country.

Our leaders have failed us, increasingly so every term, and I'm afraid it's not going to change anytime soon. I admit, I'm beginning to lose hope that this country can ever turn around and start working properly without something major happening. I feel it coming, too. A revolution, a civil war, an apocolyptic battle with another country, or simply a political coup, but I don't see any one man getting into the office of president, and suddenly things becoming "right". I can't see a hundred men getting into the office of president, and gradually becoming "right". This country is screaming for change, but I don't know if it's even ready for that change. If there is some sort of action that completely decimates this country's overcrowded populace, it could go any number of ways. Perhaps it will throw the country into chaos, spawning a "Mad Max" type of country. Maybe it will strengthen those who survive, and bring us together, finally reforming the union we've lost. Possibly nothing dramatic will happen after this climax, the country could stagnate as it has for years already. Whatever happens, it will be a change, if not a huge one.

In short, we need change. We have become too top-heavy, and we will collapse. The world will celebrate it's freedom from the overbearing US, but I fear changes will not be contained within our borders. I just pray that when the day comes, we will all see a bright future, rather than a more dismal one than we see now.

That being said, I love my country. I was born and raised here. I respect the rights we have been given, and pray for a day when they are truly equal. Maybe our salvation lies not in disaster, but in a change of nature, but that's a long way off. If we could see people having only one child, respecting eachother and themselves, judging their leaders on merits, rather than on party, and generally being nice, our country would be utopia.

But we can start this by being nice ourselves.

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That being said, I love my country. I was born and raised here. I respect the rights we have been given, and pray for a day when they are truly equal. Maybe our salvation lies not in disaster, but in a change of nature, but that's a long way off. If we could see people having only one child, respecting eachother and themselves, judging their leaders on merits, rather than on party, and generally being nice, our country would be utopia.

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We have become too top-heavy, and we will collapse. The world will celebrate it's freedom from the overbearing US...

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We have become too top-heavy, and we will collapse. The world will celebrate it's freedom from the overbearing US...

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Not counting, of course, those numerous parts of the world that, whether they'd admit it right now or not, would shit in their pants if they woke up tomorrow and the United States in its present form no longer existed.

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I never said you have to agree with the policies, the ideas, or the administration in general,

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"I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"

- Howard Beale, Network

Ain't gonna happen.

In my opinion, we are being genetically exterminated. For a long time, the people who seem to get by in this world and proliferate are people susceptible to marketing, and who can grasp its concept and utilize it to gain even MORE capital.

This means that natural selection is helping to breed more and more kids who will grow up and be materialistic and capitalistic. Profit-hungry, out-for-him/herself, venture capitalist zombies on the horizon is all I see.

I love America, but I'm not IN love with America.

America just wants you for a cheap hand-job, then it's out the door with ya.

Plus, America hasn't called me in 3 days, I think America's definitely seeing someone else! :*(

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My God is teh r0xx0r. He's got a flaming sword and laser beams for eyes, and wings fold out of his back and he flies around. I just got the action figure last Thursday. He could totally kick your God's ass.

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I think the most annoying thing about American patriots, is how they seem to think that they're the only ones in the world with concepts like "freedom" and "democracy".

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I think the most annoying thing about American patriots, is how they seem to think that they're the only ones in the world with concepts like "freedom" and "democracy".

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It's not the concepts that define a typical overzealous patriot's pride, but the definition of those concepts. It's because of nations like USA, England, and Australia that the concepts of freedom and democracy are prevalent in the world. America didn't invent freedom, it defined it, and nurtured it. America didn't create democracy, it enforced it.

True patriots know that pride and arrogance are two different things. I'm proud of my country. I'm proud of who I am. I'm not arrogant enough to assume I am better than anyone in any country. I'm not arrogant enough to assume my country is superior. But there is no country I'd rather be.

Simply waving a flag and supporting our president doesn't make you a patriot. Fighting in a war, even one you don't believe in, doesn't make you a patriot. There is no action that will make you a patriot. Only in your heart can you be a patriot.

Standing up for what you believe in, so long as that is your country, and the pride of your brothers, is a sign of patriotism. Steadily moving forward with the love of your country in heart, despite all others who try to deter you, that is a sign of patriotism.

Killing people, waging war, and passing laws to protect your beliefs, religious or otherwise, that is not patriotism. That is barbarianism. Bush is a barbarian.

Lying to protect yourself, speaking out and damning your countrymen, allying yourself with those who hate your country, andtrying to pass laws to damage your country and the lives of those who protect it, that is not patriotism. That is traitorous. Kerry is a traitor.

Which is worse? I couldn't tell you. All I can tell you is that neither is an ideal I see as fit for representing the country I love. And it is with that in mind that I continue to stand for what I believe, even if what I believe begins to change.

I don't care about Kerry's war record. I don't care about Bush getting out of serving in the military. Neither one has a clean war record.

I do care about Kerry's lies, and lack of resolve to help protect our country. I do care about Bush's arrogance, and willingness to put our country in danger. Both present, to me, a method to destroy us, one is just more direct than the other.

I believe our military should be strong enough to protect us, but I also believe that our military should not be sent to die, just to make us "right". I won't go protest the war, because it won't change anyone's mind. I won't support this war, because I don't agree with it's continuation. I supported the fight in Afghanistan. I do not support the "freedom" of Iraq.

But I do support my brothers and sisters who stand in that wasteland of religious hatred, who face death each day, and fight, willingly or not, for the country they have sworn to serve. And I will welcome my friend, my brother, when he returns from Iraq with open arms, because he is braver than I. I salute him, and all who stand beside him. I just want him to be one of those who still stand when the smoke clears.

In short, I love this country, I hate these leaders, and I honor those who serve this country. Duty is duty, america is america. The only variable is corruption, and I'm afraid that will never be undone.

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Ain't gonna happen.

In my opinion, we are being genetically exterminated. For a long time, the people who seem to get by in this world and proliferate are people susceptible to marketing, and who can grasp its concept and utilize it to gain even MORE capital.

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Bunner, I agree with the idea of standing up and effectively being mad as hell and not taking it anymore.

Rallying others to do the same is a daunting, daunting task. Hell, the biggest problem the Left has is its complete willingness to jump from issue to issue, splintering itself into millions of factions. The reason the Republicans have been so successful thus far is because they focus hard on one issue at a time.

But believe me, although I feel right now like it ain't gonna happen, I predicate my life on the on the idea that it can.

Let's be pals.

I hate when people say they love their country. They're saying they love a hunk of land. I don't love my country, I love the things my country has. That's why it bugs me when people say they love America. You wouldn't love it if it was full of vampires with laser eyes, would you?

Well, that would be pretty sweet.

I would love America even if it was full of giant butts with laser buttholes.

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But believe me, although I feel right now like it ain't gonna happen, I predicate my life on the on the idea that it can.

Let's be pals.

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