From the Metal-Rules message board FAQ:

""What is mallcore and why there is no such thing as "nu-metal."

Some people refer to this as "rap-metal" or as "nu-metal." Some bands who don't rap are still mallcore. Mallcore bands include: K**N, Limp Dickshit, Korn Chamber, Defcunts, ShitSnot, System of a Clown, Dope, (NEW) Machine Head, Static X, PowerKorn 5000, Kid Cock, Kittie....etc.

Just because a band is popular DOES NOT mean it's mallcore. For example Pantera are very popular as are Black Sabbath....however neither are mallcore - they are heavy metal. Mallcore fans ARE NOT metalheads. Image may not be everything, but if you dress up and portray yourself as a rapper then we tell it like we see it! - The ones with their pants crotch to their knees, their short spikey hair (usually dyed yellow), their pointy goatees and chains around their necks...these people look like gansta rappers, NOT like metalheads. These mallcore freaks are the ones who know nothing of the history of metal or metal beyond what some lame media outlet run by a bunch of suits (not metalheads) decide to call metal. You ask these mallcore kids about any band before 1990 and they say it sux unless it's Ozzy and Sabbath because Ozzy's Shitfest for some reason has brought out all these lame bands that all these mallcore freaks love. To them a band like Iron Maiden is "old" and "80's music." Iron Maiden are every bit as relevant today as ever. Ask a mallcore kid about a NEW (not nu) band like Iced Earth, Steel Prophet, Nevermore, Stratovarius or even heavier bands like The Crown or Testament and they don't know shit about them!

To put it simply, Mallcore is nothing but noisy guitars with rapped, whined and screamed vocals thrown over it. Just a fad that is destined to disappear!!"

Mallcore devalues proper rap music as well.

I'm personally more put off by the fans of the bands you mention than the bands themselves... except maybe Kid Cock and Wimp Shizznit.

Aside from that, there's *one* thing that kind of bothers me about the rant. I'm generally in favor of different musical styles meeting as long as it's done well and is on the whole pleasing. Take Otyg, or Storm for example... that's not at all typical metal and it wouldn't have come about without artists being unashamed of mixing genres.

I'm now going to slam my fingers in a door for typing the word "Shizznit."

Why's it called mallcore anyway? Do they play it in shopping malls? My local supermarket just plays instrumental versions of Corrs and Texas songs.

the biscuit game guys DID have a good guitarist, not for talent but rather vision

if you had five of him on differet instruments then you would have a ghood band

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I'm personally more put off by the fans of the bands you mention than the bands themselves...

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Rage Against the Machine is Rap-Metal. They're kinda cool.

Actualy I like the music more than I do the rap element. I belive DXero said they were commies or something.

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I'm personally more put off by the fans of the bands you mention than the bands themselves...

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What I'm put off by is pointless elitism.

I've never heard anyone categorize any of the above-listed bands as metal. I've never heard of "nu-metal" or "rap-metal" either, but really, I don't care what anyone calls their genre.

Are there really a whole lot of people who are trying to steal undeserved popularity by hitching their non-metal bands to the metal caravan?

Are they succeeding?

Does it decrease the enjoyment you get from listening to true metal music?

Would you think less of a metal fan if he also liked some of these bands?

Do you believe that music or entertainment have Platonic forms to which metal is closer than mallcore?

When I hear the word "metal", I think of '80s bands with ugly hair, agonizing guitar solos, and empty lyrics. I sure won't think any less of a band if you tell me it doesn't conform to that stereotype. Especially when I never imagined it might in the first place.

I like some of the bands named above, dislike others, and I'm proud to say that my opinion was influenced by nothing other than what I heard when I put the CD in the player.

I am at a loss to understand the cause of this vehement defense of the purity of "metal" against some nebulous foe of whose existence I'm unconvinced. Even if people in some particular region of the world -- let's say Northern California, just to pick a place at random -- are indeed conducting an organized assault upon metal's good name, what's the relevance to stripcreator.com?

How about you listen to what you like, and I'll listen to what I like, and if we want each other's opinions we can ask for them.

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i like it when people take a sensible stand

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I belive DXero said they [Rage Against the Machine] were commies or something.

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The obvious question is how you can call yourself a socialist while being signed to a major record label. I read an interview in which a band member (not Zack) partially addressed that issue. One thing he said was that they wanted their message to reach as many listeners as possible, and that most small-time bands couldn't do much more than preach to the choir. This is certainly a good point.

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Did no one read the first part? It wasn't a RANT, it is a section of the Metal-rules.com message board fact. It's not exactly how I feel. I have never stated people should not listen to a certain type of music.

My main reason for wishing to have a distinction lies in the fact that MTV, record stores, record companies, distribution companies (such as columbia house) and radio stations ALL call that crap metal. It creates a negative stigma toward the actual genre of metal, which is far more diverse, intelligent, and thought-out than mallcore. I also have a secondary reason for the distinction. Essentially, I like to listen to new music, but I know I do NOT like most of mallcore. Therefore, it only stands to reason that I would NOT want to listen to a "metal" band and find out it's really crap that I do not like. I'm not trying to dictate others' listening habits in any way, so stop assuming that, and read a little more than just what you dislike in a post. I hate that shit.

Regarding RATM, a rapcore band with socialist messages: I do not like this band, musically or ideologically. As for signing onto a record label, the messages in the songs (at least that I've heard) have altered to a non-socialist ideal, and the basis of the band's ideals has gone to a very capitalistic process. That's why the former vocalist is gone, or so I've heard.

I'd like to call myself a true Metal fan by saying that I owned all of Guns 'N Roses' albums before "Bizkit" were on the scene, but that isn't enough.

Andy, do you remember Tinman's "Guitar Wolf" cd? If that's the kind of stuff I need to listen to, to be able to call myself a true metal fan, then, I'll just stay where I am.

I'm a fan of music, I have a vast collection of albums by bands and artists who I consider to be great, ranging from Cypress Hill to Radiohead, Grandaddy to Slipknot, Wu-Tang to Led Zeppelin, Lemonheads to The Doors.

I don't commit myself to one particular style, I just like good music.

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I'm personally more put off by the fans of the bands you mention than the bands themselves...

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What I'm put off by is pointless elitism.

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I will assume this isn't directed at me, since I really don't see elietism in my own personal stance... aside from an admited dislike of two bands and the fact that I don't normally enjoy being around the average Korn fan. (Even though I don't mind the band themselves.) You know how you once said "The more Vasquez fans I meet, the more ashamed I am to be one?" That's what I'm getting at with my statement.

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I've never heard anyone categorize any of the above-listed bands as metal. I've never heard of "nu-metal" or "rap-metal" either, but really, I don't care what anyone calls their genre.

Are there really a whole lot of people who are trying to steal undeserved popularity by hitching their non-metal bands to the metal caravan?

Are they succeeding?

Does it decrease the enjoyment you get from listening to true metal music?

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You may not have heard it, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. It's not the bands themselves that have given themselves those titles, but music journalists, record labels, and radio stations looking for a convenient name to give it. The root of DX's editorial (at least to my understanding) has to do with the fact that he percieves the musical style he loves to be threatened by the existence of bands that have nothing to do with it being grouped into the same caste. It doesn't diminish one's ability to enjoy their favorite music, but it does make it harder to find likeminded individuals when you both use the same word "metal" and end up meaning different things. It's like if you go to a restaurant and order Lobster only to be served Veil because of a difference in understood jargon.

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Would you think less of a metal fan if he also liked some of these bands?

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Myself? No. But then again, I know plenty of others who would.

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Do you believe that music or entertainment have Platonic forms to which metal is closer than mallcore?

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You have flown over my vocabulary... not in the words you've used, but in the way you've used them.

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When I hear the word "metal", I think of '80s bands with ugly hair, agonizing guitar solos, and empty lyrics. I sure won't think any less of a band if you tell me it doesn't conform to that stereotype. Especially when I never imagined it might in the first place.

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It's unfortunate that you have such a narrow view of a musical style wider than '80 hair bands. It's a notion that a lot of metal fans have to dispel on many occasions.

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I like some of the bands named above, dislike others, and I'm proud to say that my opinion was influenced by nothing other than what I heard when I put the CD in the player.

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Good for you. What would make you think I'd be any different? (I'll only speak for myself here)

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I am at a loss to understand the cause of this vehement defense of the purity of "metal" against some nebulous foe of whose existence I'm unconvinced. Even if people in some particular region of the world -- let's say Northern California, just to pick a place at random -- are indeed conducting an organized assault upon metal's good name, what's the relevance to stripcreator.com?

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I think I explained the vehemence above. It's because of a percieved loss of a community. What does it have to do with stripcreator.com? What does a fawn with diarrhea have to do with stripcreator.com? Since when does anything in this board have to be related to it? This is the general discussions forum.

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How about you listen to what you like, and I'll listen to what I like, and if we want each other's opinions we can ask for them.

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That's generally what I live by... of course when someone else starts up a conversation about it, I'll naturally add my own two cents.

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Andy, do you remember Tinman's "Guitar Wolf" cd?

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not Slipknot, I own nothing by them,

Mushroomhead, but I didn't think anyone would know who I meant, so I said Slipknot to make the contrast.

Stavinski, Beethoven (for stark contrast between different classical styles), Creedence Clearwater, Johnny Cash, Iced Earth, Crystal Method, the Gathering, Tool, Dream Theater, the Doors, and Elvis Prestley, I like all these.

I have varied tastes in music, and I do not fault others for being the same. To be human is to be an individual, and it's certainly not my job to make sure people are not people.

As for the Elitism I treasure? I think everyone is a little bit elitist in some way, the difference is that I embrace and refine my elitism so that I do not find myself being a hypocrite. I see myself as a connoisseur of musical tastes, listening to that which I really like, and that which is extremely technical and requires a lot of talent. I don't just listen to music because it's really talented, as is evidenced by the fact that I like Grind, as well as the fact that while I respect Jazz, I can NOT stand it.

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It creates a negative stigma toward the actual genre of metal,

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on the point of elitism someone said something very smart to me the other day

peopl have beleifs and hold tham as better than others for that reason, if they didnt then these beleifs would not be beleifs

i think the clarity of that particular philosopher was lost in my bastardisation but hey, i get it so it aint my lost

fuckers

im better than you

Not really.
When you create a stigmata geared toward a musical style, you equally create one that reflects upon those who listen to it. The idea that metalheads are all stupid, violent, angsty guys who are just children at heart is part of this negative ideal. I grow tired of these stereotypes being falsely applied to people who don't even listen to a the musical style they were originated from. The majority of metal is clean (lyrically), and is only risque in it's topics. As for the annoying idea that all metal is just distorted guitars and yelling, that's almost totally wrong. Death Metal is growling and distorted guitars, power metal is clean or lightly distorted guitars played really fast and technically with sung or high-pitched wailed vocals. Black metal is screeching vocals and high-pitched distorted guitars. Gothic metal is deep, distorted guitars, usually clean vocals and a very dark atmosphere. Thrash is screamed or sung vocals with fast, heavy, even more technical guitars (the distinction between this and power metal comes in when you listen, the mood is decidedly different, and the subject matters are quite different). Classic metal is a harder form of classic rock, with some classical elements unwittingly added. It's also commonly more technical than classic rock.

Essentially, metal is an EXTREMELY varied form of music that different obviously from mallcore, if someone is actually intelligent enough to actually attempt to discern between them. Mallcore listeners are often morons, trend-hoppers, rude, angsty, and young teenagers. Metalheads are usually fairly intelligent, somewhat happy, discerning, commonly very nice, dedicated 18-40 year olds who, instead of fighting over which band is the best, usually just come together because of a common love of a very varied form of music!

Skagg, on your quote, it's a very good one, and quite true.

Though, it's spelled "belief".

But anyway, I do agree with it. A belief is essentially saying that you think you're right, and that those who disagree with you are wrong. To say that you do not think someone else is wrong is to say that you do not have that belief. :)

Also, when I said "stigmata" I meant "stigma". I type too fast sometimes.

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Also, when I said "stigmata" I meant "stigma". I type too fast sometimes.

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Heh.
Christian Hardcore.
Eh, I guess that's not implausible. "Christian Black Metal" on the other hand...

Actually, I think there's already been several Christcore bands. POD is sorta a Christcore band, but that's a bit of an insult to the real "hardcore christian punk" bands out there. Not that "Christian punk" isn't an oxymoron ;)

Andy's Maw's an oxymoron

"What's an oxymoron?"
"It's like saying 'Military Intelligence'"

-- Newsradio

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What I'm put off by is pointless elitism.

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I will assume this isn't directed at me

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So don't read my posts if you don't like them. Freedom of speech includes the freedom of not reading what you don't want to. They're intended as editorials, not as required reading.

As for punk, I was once into punk music. Bands like the Sex Pistols, the Ramones, the Dead Kennedys and the Dead Milkmen stand out in my eyes. NoFX is on the edge of punk, to the point where I don't consider it punk. Blink182 is pop rock. Offspring is rock. I am like this with all forms of music, including punk, country, classical, and rock.

Go look at the goat in the 'CS.com regulars page' forum. It's really a very neat looking goat. I named it "Peaches".

Silly Goat!

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Go look at the goat in the 'CS.com regulars page' forum. It's really a very neat looking goat. I named it "Peaches".

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So don't read my posts if you don't like them. Freedom of speech includes the freedom of not reading what you don't want to. They're intended as editorials, not as required reading.

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Hey- I care. I like any discussion about music because I harbor the same feelings about what "really" is Jazz.
So write on, there are people listining.

I could probably write a lot of strips like these. But feel free to exercise that freedom not to read them.

48447

Anyway, thanks to those who supported my feelings about this.

The problem with genre labels is that they're completely subjective and therefore a uselessly inaccurate means of identifying music. The moment you can get ten teenagers to agree completely on what any particular genre is, I'll recognize it as an exact science.

What would be more interesting and useful would be to divide music into genres based on actual musical theory rather than some goofy, meaningless term that somebody thought up because it sounded neat. "I only listen to AMINOR3/4TIMEAND126BPM-core, which is music in the key of A minor at 3/4 time and at 126 bpm. You fucking suck!"

The moment any genre is labeled there are immediately people disputing what that particular genre covers. I spent some of my precious teenage years wasting my time arguing about what is or isn't "industrial" and it really got nobody anywhere.

It's important to label every style of music, I can sympathise with DX on this one, he's a "Metal-head" or a "Metaller" or whatever, and as soon as he mentions that people assume Linkin Park and Papa Roach, which isn't Metal.

Maybe some of you guys think this post is pointless, and think that his opinions (or the opinions he posts) are wrong, but isn't that the fucking point? THIS IS A DISCUSSIONS FORUM!!!

You know? like, someone says something, then you discuss wether you agree or disagree or whatever, it's generally called conversation in the real world, basically, if you don't like the conversation, walk away from it, hover your mouse over 'Mallcore' and think "no, wait, that's the thread that talks about Metal music, I don't want to read that" and then click somewhere else.

simple

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You know? like, someone says something, then you discuss wether you agree or disagree or whatever, it's generally called conversation in the real world, basically, if you don't like the conversation, walk away from it, hover your mouse over 'Mallcore' and think "no, wait, that's the thread that talks about Metal music, I don't want to read that" and then click somewhere else.

simple

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Yesterday this was a nice discussion about music, but now it's like a big argument, music seems to be the....uh......I have no metaphor for what it is, but, it makes everyone argue.

Catalyst?

I agree, it's important to label every style of music, or else it will be confused easily. There are real meanings to these names too, it's not just foolishness.

www.allmusic.com has some interesting facts and discriptions about different styles of music, there's even a music map where you can chart the course of a particular style.

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Catalyst?

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I agree, it's important to label every style of music, or else it will be confused easily.

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Yesterday this was a nice discussion about music, but now it's like a big argument, music seems to be the....uh......I have no metaphor for what it is, but, it makes everyone argue.

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I agree, it's important to label every style of music, or else it will be confused easily. There are real meanings to these names too, it's not just foolishness.

www.allmusic.com has some interesting facts and discriptions about different styles of music, there's even a music map where you can chart the course of a particular style.

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For some reason, that site's black metal link is broken... strange.

But this is probably one of the first broad based and extensive sites I've seen that actually knows what the hell doom metal is... I give it accolades for that.

I have but three classifications. Not only for metal, or even music as it were, but for all things. Granted these classifications are based on personal opinion, but they work pretty well. They are as follows...

Are you sitting down?

1. Things That Suck
examples:Wirthling, cholera, being struck by lightning and/or buses, war, violence, being burned at the stake, anthrax

2. Things That Don't Suck
examples:Puppies, ice cream, flannel, backrubs, smooches, cheese, BMWs, books, sex

3. Things Whose Suckiness Has Not Yet Been Determined
examples:Discrete math, snow, Gerard Depardieu, figure skating

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It creates a negative stigma toward the actual genre of metal, which is far more diverse, intelligent, and thought-out than mallcore.

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Things That Suck...being burned at the stake

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DexX, don't you have a vote to cast in the "Mystery Cup"??

The suspense is killing me!

I cast mine already.... or is there a new one now?

Sorry, with installing W2K and wrestling with my shithouse modem, I haven't been around as much as usual in the last couple of days.

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Things That Suck...being burned at the stake

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Doesn't it depend who's being burned at the stake?

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