48 hours to go till war we wage and price we pay.

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JrnymnNate March 17, 2003 5:20 PM	What do you think will happen, regardless of past events?
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KajunFirefly March 17, 2003 5:30 PM	Hopefully the oil wells will be okay.
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fuzzyman March 17, 2003 5:50 PM	I imagine that Saddam will quietly release homoerotic videos of George Bush and Tony Blair self-pleasuring themselves while reading from the Koran. George and Tony will back away from the whole war thing, admit to their torrid affair, and resign from office. Later, they will redecorate each other's homes on "Trading Spaces." What do I win if I'm right?
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Ender2300 March 17, 2003 6:00 PM	You win the videos.
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JrnymnNate March 17, 2003 6:19 PM	What if I were to tell you that this war is not about oil and that it's the USA cleaning up the mess it made when it entrusted Saddam Hussein with US technology to balance the power in the middle east with Iran? It's not about oil, but it's still just as messed up.
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Ender2300
March 17, 2003 6:35 PM

I would partially have to agree. I don't think that there's any one reason were going in there. I think that there are several reasons. The oil is a reason. I think that the biggest reason is the nation's growing fear of terrorism allows Bush to finish the vendetta against Iraq that his father couldn't. When the Clinton administration was in power, we never heard a word about Iraq. Bush comes to power, and in the wake of the September 11th attacks he spearheads actions against his "axis of evil".

I do believe that Bush truly does believe in what he is doing. But I do NOT believe that Bush fully understands the dynamics of international politics. The ramifications of the actions that will be taken today will reach far into the next century. Is it really a good idea for America to break away from the UN? Only time will tell.

"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
" -Dennis Miller.

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andydougan March 17, 2003 7:27 PM	I will make lots of comics making poor jokes about a humanitarian catastrophe, that's what'll happen.
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bunnerabb March 17, 2003 7:44 PM	quote: What if I were to tell you that this war is not about oil and that it's the USA cleaning up the mess it made when it entrusted Saddam Hussein with US technology to balance the power in the middle east with Iran? I would say "HAH!"
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Spankling March 17, 2003 8:08 PM	I can't believe you people are burning bandwidth talking politics.
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JrnymnNate
March 17, 2003 8:33 PM

quote:
I can't believe you people are burning bandwidth talking politics.

I know... no goatse links this whole thread long...

http://goatse.cx

there we go.

One other thing - how many arab nations are pro-iraq? and give me some proof statements.

He's a Stalin of the middle east- pretty much everyone there would like nothing more than to see him fall. Of course, they may not like the US doing it, but they still arn't for Saddam.

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KajunFirefly March 18, 2003 1:50 AM	Fucking hell 'Nate, there's like a 20 page politics thread in the FGH forum talking about this war, go there, read that and ask your dad for answers.
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not_Scyess
March 18, 2003 6:41 AM

quote:
One other thing - how many arab nations are pro-iraq? and give me some proof statements.

I don't think any nations -- including most of the Iraqi-people, are pro-Iraq in its current form. But they're more anti-American than they are anti-Iraq. They see us as some know-it-all superpower barging in on THEIR territory and trying to inflict our world view over their backwards religious idiology. Gosh, I can't imagine what gave them that impression.

quote:
He's a Stalin of the middle east- pretty much everyone there would like nothing more than to see him fall. Of course, they may not like the US doing it, but they still arn't for Saddam.

So?

quote:
Fucking hell 'Nate, there's like a 20 page politics thread in the FGH forum talking about this war, go there

Nah, that thread sucks.

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JrnymnNate March 18, 2003 6:49 AM	Well, I guess that was kinda my point... that... like... nobody want to defend sadam... and I didn't ask my "Daddy" for answers, Kajun. I'd swear at you or something but I feel sick today. Must stop typing... dies
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fuzzyman March 18, 2003 1:50 PM	New forum. FIGHT!
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KajunFirefly March 18, 2003 5:00 PM	It's bad enough without 'Nate and I fighting, I just don't like the way he overlooked the sarcasm in my comment about oil wells and instead said "what if I were to tell you that this wasn't about oil?". I can tell you, if you did tell me that, I'd smack you upside the head and say no more about it.
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Devin March 18, 2003 9:23 PM	quote: I just don't like the way he overlooked the sarcasm in my comment about oil wells But I don't think he did. Your sarcasm implied that you think the U.S. was going to war over oil, and he said, "what if I told you this war wasn't about oil?"
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KajunFirefly March 19, 2003 10:25 AM	Devin, you've estalished yourself as a fool, you don't have to prove it in every post.
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PhreakyChinchilla March 19, 2003 10:36 AM	I'll answer you on the "price we pay" part like 90% of Americans will be doing. turns back, stops whining
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Devin March 19, 2003 12:15 PM	quote: Devin, you've estalished yourself as a fool, you don't have to prove it in every post. But then I wouldn't have a schtick!
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JrnymnNate March 19, 2003 4:13 PM	I have no idea what's going on now. Anyway my point was that Oil was not the major issue. One of 'em yeah, but not the way everyone has been parading it to be. shuts up now
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JrnymnNate March 19, 2003 4:14 PM	quote: quote: I just don't like the way he overlooked the sarcasm in my comment about oil wells But I don't think he did. Your sarcasm implied that you think the U.S. was going to war over oil, and he said, "what if I told you this war wasn't about oil?" Oh yeah and that was right, I jush should have said "what if I told you this war wasn't JUST about oil?"
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KajunFirefly March 19, 2003 6:22 PM	Wow, thank you, thank you for opening my eyes, I was so obviously blind, what the hell was I thinking? You guys are idiots.
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Spankling March 19, 2003 7:35 PM	Peace. I mean that, man. Does Sammy Davis squint
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JrnymnNate March 20, 2003 5:47 AM	How come you take everything as an offense Kajun? It wasn't meant that way.
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boorite
March 20, 2003 7:41 AM

The war is about oil. Nate, you trace it back to Washington's effort to "balance the power" (sick euphemism) with Iran. Well, let's see. Why was the revolutionary government of Iran anti-American? Do you think it possibly might have had something to do with (stretch your imagination here) the Shah? The Shah whose rule we re-imposed on Iran in 1953 when our CIA (along with British MI-6) overthrew Mossadeq's democratic government? And why do you suppose we did that? Do you suppose it was unrelated to Mossadeq's nationalization of Iran's oil reserves? Because according to our government's own internal documents, it was ALL about that.

Stop jerking off to White House press releases. The powerful are lying to you, Nate. Isn't that obvious? Fucking snap out of it. Read what they say to each other, not the ad copy they crank out for rabble like us. You'll see it's ALL about oil. Practically all. What do you think we're after over there? Family values? Sand? What?

As far as "how many Arab nations are pro-Iraq," it's a dumb question. The question is, how many Arab (and other mideast) nations want a US war on Iraq. The answer in a word is "none." Is Oregon "pro-California ?" Probably not. Do they want, say, China to bomb California? Probably not.

Yes, Saddam Hussein's hero is Stalin, and most people want him out. That never bothered the US before 1991. What do I think is going to happen? Washington is going to put another Saddam Hussein in power. Another Pinochet, Suharto, Duvalier, Somoza, Marcos, Batista, Franco, Shah, Selassie, Noriega, or Ngo Dinh Diem. I'm sure of it. Bet me.

And while we're setting about toppling hated dictators of the Middle East, let's have a look at some of our friends over there.

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kramer_vs_kramer March 20, 2003 8:21 AM	Never mind that, look who's fighting for the US.
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andydougan March 20, 2003 8:24 AM	Yes, boorite. I really think Ari would lie. rolls eyes
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andydougan March 20, 2003 8:26 AM	quote: Never mind that, look who's fighting for the US. I think that's the best thing I've ever seen. Thank you.
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boorite March 20, 2003 8:30 AM	quote: Never mind that, look who's fighting for the US. Optimus Prime. That is so. Fucking. Cool.
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Zegota March 20, 2003 8:59 AM	Brilliant, if only Saddam would change his name to Megatron we could have these two duck it out against each other and no one else would get hurt. AUTOBOT OPTIMUS PRIME Quote: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." Is Bush sentient?
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kramer_vs_kramer March 20, 2003 9:11 AM	Megatron's motto is "Peace through tyranny". That sounds more like Bush's style.
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boorite March 20, 2003 9:49 AM	quote: Brilliant, if only Saddam would change his name to Megatron we could have these two duck it out against each other and no one else would get hurt. All the chickenhawks plan to "duck it out" on this war.
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evil_d
March 20, 2003 10:02 AM

Of course the war's not JUST about oil. It's also about Bush Jr. trying to do what his dad didn't get the chance to. And about distracting people from how the war on terrorism is going. And about rallying the American people behind a president whom they formerly saw as an election-stealer. And about making Iraq safe for democracy (read: capitalism). And yes, it's partly about protecting America from the possibility that Saddam Hussein will use weapons of mass destruction against us.

Remind me again why this wasn't posted in the Fights Go Here forum?

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boorite
March 20, 2003 12:08 PM

quote:
Of course the war's not JUST about oil. It's also about Bush Jr. trying to do what his dad didn't get the chance to.

But it all spins back to the middle. What was his dad trying to do? Discipline Saddam for slipping his leash. Why were we with Saddam in the first place? 1. Oil; 2. because he was fighting Iran. OK, so why were we against Iran? Because they deposed our guy the Shah and now they hate us. Why'd we impose the Shah's rule on them? Oil.

What are we doing over there at all? Oil oil oil.

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israphael March 20, 2003 1:22 PM	Another message from the Department of Homeland Security.
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andydougan
March 20, 2003 4:39 PM

quote:
Of course the war's not JUST about oil. It's also about Bush Jr. trying to do what his dad didn't get the chance to.

But Sr. opposed the war. Anyway, W wouldn't be permitted to spend so much on resolving a family feud.

quote:
And yes, it's partly about protecting America from the possibility that Saddam Hussein will use weapons of mass destruction against us.

Even if it wasn't ridiculous to suggest that Iraq poses a threat to America, another terrorist attack would strengthen support for the government, so why would they want to prevent it? The US and its allies are still selling nuclear components to Iran, so it's pretty clear they're not bothered about their enemies possessing WMDs.

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JrnymnNate
March 20, 2003 5:32 PM

Actualy boorite, most of my influnce (100%) came from this book called The Threatening Storm by Kenneth Pollack. I know I shouldn't have started this argument because I've actualy only read one chapter, and it dealt mostly with the Twin Pillar polices that the US invested in Iran during the 70's or so. The regime did change, but it was like some internal coup, right?

I dunno. Like I said, I just thought there was some truth in there. The story sounded nice to me.

After all, I think we should tear the ground off Alaska and the west and pump our own oil out of our backyards.

Or better yet! How about hydro-electric/geo-thermal/harnessing-the-waves-on-the-sea-technology? Those would be awsome to have.

The US should really be more isolationist.

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JrnymnNate March 20, 2003 5:33 PM	^ that wasn't really sarcasm, I think that we should be more powerfull and sqaush people who make direct offenses to us, but not play in their pool.
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Brad March 20, 2003 6:36 PM	quote: Remind me again why this wasn't posted in the Fights Go Here forum? So I could have the pleasure of moving it. Tra le la!
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Spankling March 20, 2003 8:11 PM	This war isn't ALL about oil, I agree. Bush is a sadist and a frightened child who wants to put the scary man down like he did so many quickly convicted black men in Texas. But for Cheney it's the oil. And he and his kind are calling the shots.
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evil_d
March 20, 2003 9:06 PM

quote:
But Sr. opposed the war.

That doesn't mean it's not part of Jr.'s motivation. I still strongly suspect that it is. I think he's just that type of person.

quote:
Anyway, W wouldn't be permitted to spend so much on resolving a family feud.

Not if he put it in those words, no.

quote:
Even if it wasn't ridiculous to suggest that Iraq poses a threat to America,

If Osama bin Laden can pose a threat to America, so can Saddam Hussein. I don't think that makes it okay to invade Iraq before they've made any overt hostile act, of course. Anyway, even if Saddam doesn't pose a threat, I believe that some people in our government honestly think he does, and honestly think pre-emptive military action is a sensible way to address that threat. And probably don't spend much time pondering the question of how it came to pass that an Iraqi dictator would be threatening America.

quote:
another terrorist attack would strengthen support for the government, so why would they want to prevent it?

Even I don't suspect them of being that sinister. Maybe I should, but I don't.

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Devin March 21, 2003 2:00 AM	Saddam is dangerous; he has missiles within range of the U.S.!
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PhreakyChinchilla March 21, 2003 6:18 AM	quote: But for Cheney it's the oil. And he and his kind are calling the shots. You mean Cheney's a real live person? I thought he'd died or something. He certainly looks dead to me when I see him on TV. :)
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boorite
March 21, 2003 7:27 AM

quote:
Actualy boorite, most of my influnce (100%) came from this book called The Threatening Storm by Kenneth Pollack.

Nothing wrong with reading Pollack as long as you keep in mind where he came from: the CIA and the NSC.

For background on the CIA/MI6 coup toppling Mossadeq, you can go to the very "newspaper of record," the New York Times. They did a big article on it, heavily citing declassified CIA documents.

quote:
After all, I think we should tear the ground off Alaska and the west and pump our own oil out of our backyards.

Or better yet! How about hydro-electric/geo-thermal/harnessing-the-waves-on-the-sea-technology? Those would be awsome to have.

The US should really be more isolationist.

I pretty much agree, except that I think strip-mining Alaska is a little too exuberant. There are a couple of things you're not taking into account, though. One is that Washington is not grabbing the oil for your and my benefit. Another is that developing our own resources and leaving other people to develop theirs, though the decent thing to do, leads to something that free-market capitalists do not want: competition. "We" (meaning investors who are in a position to influence Washington) don't want France and Germany, much less a united Middle East, gearing up their production lines. It would be "bad for America."

But would it be bad for you and me? I happen to think that the best thing that could have happened to the American auto industry in the 1970s was getting its ass kicked by Japan. I think the competition has something to do with the fact that Detroit can no longer turn out crapmobiles, secure in the knowledge that we'll "buy American." Which makes me more of a free-market capitalist than George W. Bush, and I'm slightly to the left of Noam Chomsky.

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wirthling March 21, 2003 8:14 AM	You all are forgetting one of the alternative reasons for going to war: To make us forget about the, um, the...um, the, er... Oh yeah, the supremely shitty economy.
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boorite March 21, 2003 10:30 AM	I think that's just gravy for Bush. ...which calls to mind a singularly inappropriate image.
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evil_d March 21, 2003 11:27 AM	I changed my mind. I've now been convinced that War is a Good Idea after reading this strip. 133006
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attitudechicka March 22, 2003 7:57 AM	The war kind of bothers me sometimes. They say Saddam is either dead or wounded, but what if they're feeding that to the media in a China-style news service? "Everything is all peaches and rose petals." I can't believe it until I see it. And all those body doubles make it even harder...
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kramer_vs_kramer March 22, 2003 8:57 AM	I was wondering if, when Saddam was killed, one of the lookalikes would then take over as Saddam? That way, there would always be a Saddam. Like Mayor Richard Wilkins III, but without the business with the giant snake.
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andydougan March 22, 2003 10:03 AM	Maybe Saddam doesn't even exist and it's just a cabal of Illuminati-controlled clones.
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