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Kitty_Kat
Stripcreator Regular

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Right now, I'm in the middle of a great set of fantasy series. I know theres a difference between scifi and fantasy besides the setting, but right now, I'm too tired to think.... about.............ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

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My life totally and completely REEKS.

12-13-01 6:13pm (new)
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DexX
What the Cat Dragged In

Member Rated:

Wow, lots and lots to talk about. I love it when a conversation kicks into high gear like this, though it can be hard to address every interesting point adequately. I'll give it a go...

I really enjoyed The Matrix, and continue to enjoy it on rewatches. The story is simplistic and full of holes, but, like wirthling hinted, there is more to a film than story. The Matrix is pure entertainment - concentrated and distilled. Sure, many of its ideas are blatantly stupid, and most of its good ones are borrowed from other sources, but the finished product is wonderfully entertaining. I love a good story as much as anyone, but I think a movie can be great without a great story.

Then there's Johnny Mnemonic, which is, sadly, a humongous pile of arse, but that is another story...

I don't read enough hard SF (though I always enjoy Jack L. Chalker and Larry Niven when I get the chance - Niven's co-written Dream Park trilogy is one of the best series of any genre I have ever read, as is Chalker's Rings of the Masters) but then, I hardly read at all any more. Good heavy SF is still around, though. One guy you might want to pick up is Greg Egan, an Australian writer who made an international name for himself about a decade ago, and went on to win a truckload of genre awards. Michael Crichton writes an enjoyable SF romp, too, though he sometimes gets a bit engrossed in his science and forgets such trivialities as "characters" and "plot".

Yecchh... I read the first few chapters of KJA's Star Wars novel Darksaber and it read like a fucking Golden Book. Utterly idiotic. He couldn't let a mention of a movie character go past without throwing in a handful of trademarked words (no TM symbols in the actual text, but I bet they were tempted). You read shit like, "Luke Skywalker, the young, blonde Jedi Knight, stepped from the back of the bantha, followed by Han Solo, his rugged but charming roguish friend..." Revolting prose - had it not been a library book, I would have thrown it away.

There are a few different "clubs" in the Book Was Better party. There are those who think that a movie version of their favourite book somehow pollutes it. These guys are completely irrational - do not argue with them! Then there are those who don't hate the idea of a movie, but want it to be exactly as they see it in their heads. When the pictures on the screen clash with their knowledge of the book, they get angry. I fit into the third group - change it if you need to, change it if it makes it better, but for God's sake, don't change it because you felt like it, and never change it to the detriment of the whole.

I enjoyed the first Harry Potter movie. I felt it could have been done better, but it was still a top-class effort from a director who really seemed to want to do the right thing (and didn't want to get crucified). Changes were made, things were omitted, and I understand that. The same will happen with The Fellowship of the Ring - characters wil be merged or entirely deleted, plotlines will simplify or vanish, dialogue will be made more concise. However, I know Peter Jackson is a man of deep integrity and a great fan of Tolkien's works, so I trust him to do the best job possible.

Compare this to Jurassic Park. I adored the book, and apparently scriptwriter David Koepp liked it too, which is why he decided to keep three scenes from it and write the rest from scratch. Most of his changes did not improve the film, and many of them made it much worse. JP1 was a bad film, but its best moments were, predictably, those parts retained from the novel. Apparently it wasn't so bad as source material after all, though - both sequels have taken liberally from the first novel. tLW:JP had more of the first book in it than the second.

*reads over preview*

Fuck, this is a bit long. I'll end it now.

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This signature has performed an illegal operation and has been shut down.

12-14-01 2:55am (new)
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kramer_vs_kramer
Stripcreator Newbie

Member Rated:

American Psycho the book would have made a deepy unpleasant film, but the screenwriter wisely chose to play up the black humour of the book and leave out the more graphic bits.

12-14-01 3:48am (new)
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DexX
What the Cat Dragged In

Member Rated:

I haven't read the book, but I loved the film - really appealed to the black side of my humour. An ICQ of mine is a huge fan of the novel and got all his friends to read, long before the film came out. He thinks the movie is excellent, but prefers the book.

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This signature has performed an illegal operation and has been shut down.

12-14-01 4:54am (new)
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kramer_vs_kramer
Stripcreator Newbie

Member Rated:

They are two very different beasts.

12-14-01 5:41am (new)
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KajunFirefly
chooby digital (in stereo)

Member Rated:

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, I don't remember Willy Wonka being so evil in the book.

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Dad was flammable

12-14-01 5:48am (new)
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anne_robinson
Stripcreator Newbie

Member Rated:

It's all a big metaphore. Willy=Satan, and he is tempting everyone.

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Anne Robinson- I AM SHE!

12-14-01 6:46am (new)
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kaufman
Director of Cats

Member Rated:

So in "Free Willy," they are ....

WHOA!

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ken.kaufman@gmail.com

12-14-01 6:48am (new)
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JrnymnNate
I fling the shoddy polo stick

Member Rated:

I've read most of Crichton's books and only now realize that they are Sci-Fi. There's a special brand of it that happens right now, but in away that the story is kept secret from the world. But anyway, I sometimes enjoy the times where Crichton goes and wanders of on an obscure subject in his book that doesn't have much to do with the plot, because, he does it so well that you wish there was a book written about that one idea. Anyway, my fav Crichton books are Terminal Man, Sphere, and Eaters of the Dead(I read Jurassic Park when I was 9 and it doesn't hold the same allure now as it did then).Yecchh... I read the first few chapters of KJA's Star Wars novel Darksaber and it read like a fucking Golden Book. Utterly idiotic. He couldn't let a mention of a movie character go past without throwing in a handful of trademarked words (no TM symbols in the actual text, but I bet they were tempted). You read shit like, "Luke Skywalker, the young, blonde Jedi Knight, stepped from the back of the bantha, followed by Han Solo, his rugged but charming roguish friend..." Revolting prose - had it not been a library book, I would have thrown it away.


The problem is he also likes to push him self into other people's work. The new dune series? Brian Herbert & Kevin J. He seems to like a lot of joint works when his style can't fill out a novel like the do in Star Wars(where he throws together a lot of elements from the lore, a plot, and a lot of boring syntax). He also does this with other people- I read a novel called Ill Wind, which was ok, but was a joint work of Beason and Anderson, and that made it less than it could have been.
Another thing- I just read that Anderson has written 25 bestsellers, and was nominated for the Nebula, Bram Stoker, and the SFX Reader's Choice Award.There are a few different "clubs" in the Book Was Better party. There are those who think that a movie version of their favourite book somehow pollutes it. These guys are completely irrational - do not argue with them! Then there are those who don't hate the idea of a movie, but want it to be exactly as they see it in their heads. When the pictures on the screen clash with their knowledge of the book, they get angry. I fit into the third group - change it if you need to, change it if it makes it better, but for God's sake, don't change it because you felt like it, and never change it to the detriment of the whole.

I enjoyed the first Harry Potter movie. I felt it could have been done better, but it was still a top-class effort from a director who really seemed to want to do the right thing (and didn't want to get crucified). Changes were made, things were omitted, and I understand that. The same will happen with The Fellowship of the Ring - characters wil be merged or entirely deleted, plotlines will simplify or vanish, dialogue will be made more concise. However, I know Peter Jackson is a man of deep integrity and a great fan of Tolkien's works, so I trust him to do the best job possible.

Compare this to Jurassic Park. I adored the book, and apparently scriptwriter David Koepp liked it too, which is why he decided to keep three scenes from it and write the rest from scratch. Most of his changes did not improve the film, and many of them made it much worse. JP1 was a bad film, but its best moments were, predictably, those parts retained from the novel. Apparently it wasn't so bad as source material after all, though - both sequels have taken liberally from the first novel. tLW:JP had more of the first book in it than the second.


The problem with adapting a book to the screen is that there are thousands of subtle nuances that cannot be shown to a movie audience(or even understood by half of them). Try Dune. I never saw the film, but from what I heard--it was bad right?-- anyway, the book contains dozens upon dozens of small details that fill out a story and make it very engrossing. When you put this in a movie with a budget, most of it will disappear. Even certain kinds of dialogue(like you'd see in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon) would be omitted for clarity. Also, when a writer sits down(like Crichton), all the time, energy and finances that he wants to put into this novel is completely at his discretion. When a scriptwriter/storywriter/directory sits down to make a story/script/storyboards, they must adhere to the factors that the movie studio has provided them with- the movie can be this long, we can spend this much money on it, and you can/can't do this/that.
Given all that, I don't see how you could ever get a movie to be exactly like the book, much less complain about it.
So goes the grisly state of scifi today...

But there's hope! I'm off to the library to get Greg Egan, Bruce Sterling, William Gibson, Pat Cadigan, Norman Spinrad, Rudy Rucker, Matt Ruff, Neal Stephenson, and John Shirley, and if im lucky, maybe I can find a way to order a pulp!

12-14-01 8:54am (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:


Try a magazine stand, you dipshit! And let me know what you think of those writers.

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What others say about boorite!

12-14-01 11:25am (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

quote:
Try Dune. I never saw the film, but from what I heard--it was bad right?

Like Reefer Madness but with worse special effects.
quote:

Given all that, I don't see how you could ever get a movie to be exactly like the book, much less complain about it.
OK, so this is an excuse for onscreen assrape of any book or even a whole literary movement. The maggot-eaten gangrenous shambling golem that is Hollywood is hereby pardoned.

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What others say about boorite!

12-14-01 11:47am (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:


Not quite. Willy is candy, and so he does tempt you, and you might enjoy Willy, but self-control is required. This applies to anything we love: Candy, television, crappy action movies, liquor, heroin, ass sex...

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What others say about boorite!

12-14-01 11:56am (new)
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JrnymnNate
I fling the shoddy polo stick

Member Rated:

No- I just think you can't expect hollywood to do a good job at that anymore. Personaly I wish they'd leave my favorite books alone, and I do get irritated when they make a crappy film of it because people will go around saying that THATS what the story was about, not what the book says. But I don't think they should be pardoned or penalized. It's just business ( but yes, bad business at that).

12-14-01 11:59am (new)
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NeoVid
Stripcreator Irregular

Member Rated:

I'm currently working on reading through Asimov's entire Robot/Foundation series. Being a stunningly fast reader, I'll probably be done sometime this decade. Wish me luck.

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"Only things I approve of should exist." -some guy on the internet

12-14-01 3:37pm (new)
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JrnymnNate
I fling the shoddy polo stick

Member Rated:

Foundation is worth it.

12-14-01 4:03pm (new)
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DexX
What the Cat Dragged In

Member Rated:

quote:
quote:
Try Dune. I never saw the film, but from what I heard--it was bad right?

Like Reefer Madness but with worse special effects.
I once had a Dune-triggered hallucination - the only hallucination of my life, sadly. I had come very close to breaking my collarbone (a little incident with a bunch of drunk university friends, a doorway, and me travelling at about 20km/h) and was dosed up on a lovely prescription-only painkiller we have over here called Panadeine Forte - big slug of paracetamol with a codeine chaser. The pain, which existed in a nebulous area bordered by my stomach, left shoulder, chin, and right elbow, would not let me sleep, so I flicked on the TV, and Dune came on. I watched the first half an hour or so, exhausted, in pain, and dosed up on codeine, with a cat in my lap and another on the floor by my feet, and eventually fell asleep.

When I woke up, the room was covered in cats. I was covered in cats. Apart from the TV screen, still showing Dune, and my own face, the whole room was a blanket of cats. "Oh dear," I thought calmly, "I must be hallucinating." Then I went back to sleep.

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This signature has performed an illegal operation and has been shut down.

12-16-01 1:27am (new)
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JrnymnNate
I fling the shoddy polo stick

Member Rated:

Reading Update-

I just bought Gibson's Burning Chrome and so far it looks pretty cool. I also noticed our bookstore has a lot of Gibson and Stirling.

Makes me irritated I read all those Redwall books and the SW Expanded Universe.

I also may subscribe to a pulp soon... as soon as i find an adress/mailing thingy for subscription.

12-16-01 7:02pm (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

Nate:

Analog

F&SF

Asimov's

In Burning Chrome, I'd rate "The Gernsback Continuum" as the most important story.

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What others say about boorite!

12-19-01 12:00pm (new)
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JrnymnNate
I fling the shoddy polo stick

Member Rated:

ah... thanks.

12-19-01 12:23pm (new)
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NeoVid
Stripcreator Irregular

Member Rated:

Now that I've started on Foundation, all those Wheel of Time books I had on hold finally came in at the library. So I'll be reading those two series at the same time.

Well, I was getting bored with only being a borderline schizophrenic...

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"Only things I approve of should exist." -some guy on the internet

12-19-01 3:36pm (new)
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JrnymnNate
I fling the shoddy polo stick

Member Rated:

Dangit, I just came back to say this one thing:

"Dogfight" from Burning Chome is sad. I feel bad for Tiny. That's good writing.

I hate sad stuff though. I read "Stone Fox" when I was 8 and cried because I felt so sorry for the dog.

12-20-01 12:02pm (new)
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kramer_vs_kramer
Stripcreator Newbie

Member Rated:

I once started to read this wacky book about this big all-powerful guy who apparently made the earth and everything on it in - get this - a week! I gave up though, it was just too freaky even for me. The author must have been on some crazy drugs or something. It was just totally unbelievable.

12-20-01 12:40pm (new)
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wirthling
supercalifragilisticexpialadosucks

Member Rated:

I read some of that book. The "knowing" and "smiting" parts were cool, but the rest seemed kinda preachy...

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"And Wirthling isn't worth the paper he isn't printed on."

12-20-01 10:08pm (new)
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