"We hate Bush, therefore we hate the war!"
"Oh, a democrat is in office, and starting a war? We love the war!"
"Oh, crap, the war's not over and republican's coming into office now! We hate the war now!"

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Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

Baseless, ham-handed, over-simplified and yet stunningly inaccurate. I like it.

Two points.

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

Not that inaccurate. I live in Chico, a college town. Do you know how many people were completely uncaring during the Clinton years when it came to war? And how many of them got up on soapboxes when Bush wanted to go to war? About the same number, really. In other words, pretty much all the college students.
The same goes for Republicans. They argued against the war when Clinton was in office, but they all defend it when Bush is in.

At least they actually said something instead of just not caring though.

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Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

Google Image Search : Idiots

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Okay, Lindsay, are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.

Just because people were ignorant during the Clinton Administration's War(s) does not mean that we should turn away their support during this one. Why are we all questioning the motives of each other? Isn't the fact that people are NOW no longer ignorant a good thing? It should be. Someone looking to blame the current feeling of betrayal and anti-war on previous ignorance is missing the big picture. We should give people credit for finding out the truth, and stop criticizing the way they came to it. Now, as for the statements made by MaKK...I am TRYING to not jump up and down on everything you say, but it's getting harder and harder. Remember the British Empire? Their whole philosophy was preemption. They saw the world as a place that would get them if they did not get everyone else FIRST. Hey, I know! Let's condemn British Imperialism, break free from their tyrannical rule, then wait a couple hundred years or so and do EXACTLY what we condemned them for! Woo hoo! Hypocrisy all the way, baby! Or maybe instead we could fund and sponsor a demagogue, turn a blind eye while the bastard tests biological weapons on his own people, then when all the dust clears and things start to calm down, we don't like him anymore! Hey, you bastard! Get out of power! We'll get rid of your ass by bombing the shit out of your country, and all those people who suffered under YOUR rule will then suffer some more! Yaaaaay! It's not our FUCKING job to be the international police, and as I said, there was NO evidence for a preemptive attack. None. Even the CIA, which is far and wide considered the most dastardly bunch of spies in the world, sent intelligence to the office of the president that said there was no reason to suspect an attack directly or indirectly from Iraq. The U.S. is the only country to be convicted in the World Court for TERRORISM. I bet you didn't know that.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

I don't think we're the only country. We are, however, the only country to have been convicted and then go into the UN and (virtually alone) block resolutions, both in the Security Council and the General Assembly, calling on all states to abide by international law. That's all states. Not naming names. Just a resolution saying, let's all abide by the law. The US voted that down.

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What others say about boorite!

Just because you say we are an empire doesn't make it so. Our international actions have a lot more complexities then just being raw emperialism.

And again we talked about this in another thread. Also your facts are just all skewed and wrong.

And, once again, I agree with preemption policies now.

Get your facts straight before you blither on about them. Also I can't seem to find the World Court mentioned in our Constitution. Maybe it's in the Bill of Rights, I'll re-read them when I get a chance.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

Makk, we are signatory to treaties and charters and declarations that, under our Constitution, have the force of law. (That's kinda high school Civics right there, man.) I direct your attention to Article VI, Clause 2: "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding" (emphasis added).

This is why I was banging on about the UN Charter, among other obligations our leaders have chosen to ignore. This might be a good time to go back and have a look at it, particularly Chapter XIV, which establishes the International Court of Justice. You know, those Nuremburg guys.

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What others say about boorite!

Just to make things clear, the UN Charter is a treaty, and the US Senate ratified it in 1945. Therefore it is "the supreme law of the land," according to our Constitution.

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What others say about boorite!

If we agree to something that eventually overrides the Constitution, under the Constitution it is not longer valid.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

That's almost true. The rule is, a ratified treaty is the supreme law of the land except any provisions of it that contradict "any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State." It's right there in the section I quoted. I'm not sure why you mention this. It is an interesting fact though.

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What others say about boorite!

I mention it because when we act to protect our sovereignty it doesn't matter what treaties we break or what the World Court has to say about it.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

Actually, the fact is, defending ourselves or allies from armed attack, or going after international terrorists who have committed crimes against us, are not violations of international law, nor of any treaties we've signed, and the ICJ would have nothing to say about it. So I'm still not sure why you bring this up. Unless you mean something different by "protecting our sovereignty." It's very hard to tell what you mean.

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What others say about boorite!

The World Court is a functioning international justice system in which NAZI WAR CRIMINALS are tried, a lot of which have been brought to justice BY U.S. agencies. Now you have piqued my ire. It is called the U.S. Constitution, and this indicates quite frankly what the conduct is to be WITHIN the country. It has nothing to do with what happens on foreign soil, therefore your argument is invalid. You have not provided proof of any of your statements, and you have not explained why our actions outside the U.S. are not purely empirical. I was going to hold my tongue until you used the word 'blither'. Now it's on. You wouldn't know foreign from domestic policy if they were on opposite ends of the double-headed dildo you and your mongrel dog use on each other. Nothing you say has any factual basis, regardless of the fact that you claim everyone else's statements don't, yet you have not quoted or cited one actual truth or source, other than perhaps Rush Limbaugh, who seems to be on your 'Top Ten Hottest Idiots' list. I won't even boast about myself here, but between boorite and bunnerabb, you've been outclassed, outsmarted, and out-argued. You can keep blathering about other threads, but THIS is the thread you chose to continue arguing in.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

Just because you get all high-and-mighty doesn't excuse you from demonstrating how the U.S. is acting empirically. Unless you can't (as I suspect).

And if I said something Rush Liumbaugh said it was on accident I don't read his material. I thought he was in rehab or something anyway.

If the World Court is equating us with Nazis then maybe it is a useless organization now. Or maybe we are Nazi-like and we rule the earth and you'd better get out of our way. Either way, I don't see how you can argue much.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

Acting empirically?

I think this conversation has gotten away from us. Let's all take a deep breath and start making sense again. And no more dragging each other's bestial sex practices into public view. We have a little agreement about that here.

*deep breath*

OK. The ICJ does not declare this or that state to be like the Nazis. That's not its job. If you want to know what the ICJ has said about the US, it is easy enough to find out. They have a website! They have summaries and judgements in the case to which MikeyG alluded, Nicaragua v. US. This is a case I've followed for almost 20 years now. You might say reading the testimony in the World Court was the first blow to my cherished illusion of a benign Washington. The fundamentalists say that kids go into college as Republicans and come out, I don't know, pinkos or something. Which was true in my case, and it was because, no matter how I tried to avoid it, in college I occasionally came into contact with actual information. Made it hard to cling to the flag-sucking claptrap they force-fed us through 12 years of school.

So this case is rather special to me.

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What others say about boorite!

If I have said we are above the UN why would you not also think I do not place the U.S. also above this international body (with a cheap template website to boot).

I didn't want to rehash an old argument, I was just trying to expose that MikeyG had a lot of anger and righteousness and not much else in his "argument". I really don't even know what he is arguing actually. I just want him to clear it up.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

It's almost amusing to watch that oh-so-thin rope of baselessly dismissive assumption getting stretched over wider and wider chasms of credibility.

You know... That gaping maw of lost reason between point "Just because...." and point "doesn't mean that..."

Almost.

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

What bunner was trying to say completely escaped me several days ago.

If you object to my statement that many people are against this war because Bush is for it then just say so and spare me the weird poems about assumptions and gaping maws.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

quote:

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If I have said we are above the UN why would you not also think I do not place the U.S. also above this international body (with a cheap template website to boot).

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quote:

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... this international body (with a cheap template website to boot).

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No, it's a pretty bad looking website.

I brought up treaties undermining our own ability to govern ourselves as a reason why I ignore these above mentioned bodies when they do not service our democracy. It was a main point I brought up in another thread I'm not going to rehash. I understand and accept you do not agree with my reasons.

I was mainly trying to address the fact MikeyG wasn't even getting his facts straight about what the World Court was doing, much less what damn I give about who they say is a terrorist.

Also I said I don't see much evidence that Bush is an authoritarian. I never said I wasn't.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

That is not the remark of a serious person. I have to say I feel a little cheated, as I am sincerely interested in the issues you raised and blithely assumed that you were too. But then again, I guessed somewhere back there, about 5 million words ago, that this is what it would come to, and here we are. What can I say?

quote:

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I brought up treaties undermining our own ability to govern ourselves as a reason why I ignore these above mentioned bodies when they do not service our democracy.

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Wordy wordy WORDY.

I'm tired of this thread. I'm almost certain it could easily be paraphrased down to a couple sentences per post, at most.

I want to be interested, and I want to be well-educated on politics, but I just don't have the patience to read through redundant sentence after redundant sentence just to get to the point. This isn't even mentioning the multitudes of buzzwords and overly complex vocabulary. KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid.

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Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

Tell me about it.

I'm even more confused since boorite and I had a whole other thread about this and he's bringing everything up here again, moreso since I was trying to address MikeyG's comments. Unless MikeyG = boorite and he's forgotten to change his login name.

Also I'm sorry be pointing out bad web design breaks your heart into a million pieces.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008