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DragonXero
I'm Here, You're Queer, Get Used to it

Member Rated:

[Click to view comic: 'Tobor vs. ACLU']

---
Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

10-22-01 4:28am (new)
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kramer_vs_kramer
Stripcreator Newbie

Member Rated:

Is "antipatriot" a word?

10-22-01 4:41am (new)
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andydougan
Film critic subordinaire

Member Rated:

Not if dictionary.com is to be believed.

10-22-01 5:55am (new)
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DragonXero
I'm Here, You're Queer, Get Used to it

Member Rated:

*shrugs*
The ACLU is going to be fighting for the "Nonexistent words union".

---
Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

10-22-01 5:58am (new)
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kramer_vs_kramer
Stripcreator Newbie

Member Rated:

If this ACLU are fighting against jingoistic nonsense then count me in.

10-22-01 6:04am (new)
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DragonXero
I'm Here, You're Queer, Get Used to it

Member Rated:

Can you make the ACLU oodles and oodles of money if they fight for your cause?
If so, you may just be the man they're looking for. Or hermaphrodite. Or woman. Or child of any gender, race, creed, color...
I'm fucked.
They're gonna sue me now, on the basis of not mentioning every single culture, gender, and variable within the human race.

---
Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

10-22-01 6:12am (new)
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kramer_vs_kramer
Stripcreator Newbie

Member Rated:

So they're like the "political correctness gone mad" squad?

10-22-01 6:24am (new)
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DragonXero
I'm Here, You're Queer, Get Used to it

Member Rated:

That's the geist of it.
Don't ever say or do anything that may offend anyone, or you will get a lawsuit.

The KKK actually utilized the ACLU once. The group wanted to "Adopt a Highway" and the state wouldn't allow it. So, the KKK went to the ACLU, asked for help, and the ACLU got that Adopt a Highway sign put up!

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Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

10-22-01 6:34am (new)
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evil_d
Riding through your town with his head on fire

Member Rated:

The ACLU is a liberal organization which often assists in the legal defense of victims of discrimination in the United States. They are, as DX implies, people who believe that freedom of speech applies to dissenters as well.

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The what mentioned above is total fiction. Please don't take it seriously!

10-22-01 6:44am (new)
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DragonXero
I'm Here, You're Queer, Get Used to it

Member Rated:

And OFTEN go overboard to win a case. More often than not, they care more about the money they will win with the overhead of an easy case than they do about defending the rights of the plaintiff.

In my opinion, it is much more damaging to the groups it defends than it is helpful.

That's okay though, the groups become stinking rich anyway.

Not to mention, while they claim "free speech", they are constantly attempting to silence anything that isn't decidedly liberal, such as a harmless phrase like "God Bless America".

Next, they're going to go for the gold: getting "In God We Trust" off our money, and making it illegal to practice religion in any way that you may actually be seen.

Then, onto making it illegal to *not* be a minority.

---
Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

10-22-01 7:01am (new)
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DragonXero
I'm Here, You're Queer, Get Used to it

Member Rated:

I bet I wouldn't get shit if I complained that I can't get a job because my hair is long.
But if I were gay, they'd throw money at me.

---
Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

10-22-01 7:05am (new)
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kramer_vs_kramer
Stripcreator Newbie

Member Rated:

Get a haircut you hippy.

10-22-01 7:10am (new)
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Spankling
Looking for love in ALL the wrong places, baby!

Member Rated:

quote:
I bet I wouldn't get shit if I complained that I can't get a job because my hair is long.
But if I were gay, they'd throw money at me.
As if you're not gay...

---
"Jelly-belly gigglin, dancin and a-wigglin, honey that's the way I am!" Janice the Muppet

10-22-01 8:49am (new)
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wirthling
supercalifragilisticexpialadosucks

Member Rated:

Ugh. Where do I begin?

The ACLU is a non-profit organization. They do not get paid by clients or seek judgments for themselves or as a percentage of what their client gets. The ACLU is funded by member dues, contributions, and grants from individuals and foundations. They receive no government funding.

They even fight for the rights of long-haired, Holocaust-doubting, xenophobic metaltards when their basic constitutional rights have been violated.

quote:
Don't ever say or do anything that may offend anyone, or you will get a lawsuit.

The KKK actually utilized the ACLU once. The group wanted to "Adopt a Highway" and the state wouldn't allow it. So, the KKK went to the ACLU, asked for help, and the ACLU got that Adopt a Highway sign put up!


You do realize that you just contradicted yourself, right? The ACLU stood up for an organization that has extremely unpopular views because they felt that that organization was being given less access to basic constitutional rights than others solely because of their views.

Some of the cases they take and arguments they make are a bit troublesome to me, as they tend to take an extreme "slippery-slope" arguments, but at least they are sticking to their guns. The ACLU believes that the rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights are unalienable and that no compromise can be made where those rights are concerned. The ACLU is consistent in that way.

Again, they don't make any money from the cases they win. Check your facts before posting nonsense like that.

Ah yes, we can all see how prosperous minorities have become.

The ACLU believes strongly in the implied separation of church and state (I say "implied" because it is not explicitly stated in the 1st Amendment, but tons of precedent has been established by the Supreme Court over the years that confirms the separation of church and state). You are free to say "God Bless America" all you want. It's different if you use public institutions (those funded by American taxpayers) to make statements about any kind of God. The concept at play here is referred to as "coercion." Since the government is supposed to be the protector of our right to practice religion (or not) however we please, it is not the government's place to actually promote any one religion.

Pure and utter bollocks.

See above.

You're correct. Unless you could show that you have long hair for religious reasons health reasons or for other reasons over which you have no control, there is no particular reason Constitution-wise that an employer can't discriminate against you because you have long hair. There was actually a famous case the ACLU argued concerning the hairstyle of a woman whose employers were wanted changed. She argued (successfully) that her hairstyle was part of the tradition of her religion and refused to change it. (Note that the ACLU defended the expression of religion here.)

There was a time in college when I was waiting tables and my employer asked me to cut my hair. I called the ACLU at that time, and they said pretty much what I said above. I cut my hair (not all off, but shorter).

By the way, I now have long hair and a job that pays me fairly well. You can have long hair and get a job if you have skills the employer wants.

---
"And Wirthling isn't worth the paper he isn't printed on."

10-22-01 8:56am (new)
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DragonXero
I'm Here, You're Queer, Get Used to it

Member Rated:

Hrm.
That whole argument can be shot down with two words:
Writhling sucks.

Look, the original idea of the ACLU may have been noble, however, I really doubt that's what's happening anymore. They've been caught up in a wave of PC garbage.

Okay, let's just say that my religion *does* require me to never cut my hair or shave. There ARE religions like that. The companies in question didn't even ASK if it was for religious reasons, they simply turned me down, no questions asked.

It just makes me sick that someone could be offended so much by the word "God" that they would sic the ACLU on a school for a completely noble display of patriotism. The ACLU doesn't have to jump on the case of every cockneyed nut that whimpers about something he or she doesn't particularly like.

Imagine the *shit* the child of this moronic parent has to go through now. The parent and the ACLU have caused more pain in this case than they ever could have caused satisfaction. The parent pulled the child out of the school for a couple days. I bet that kid has an intricate knowledge of what the inside of a toilet bowl looks like now.

In closing, the idea great, but then, everyone loved the idea of utopianism, such as socialist ideals. Russia, China, Cuba. Yeah. Utopias. Right.

Oh, I'm not Xenophobic. I like people from most places as much as I like people from the States...

In short, if you believe everything that the PR branch of the ACLU tells you without questioning, you're just asking to be shafted, just like a few of the people they defend have been.

One last thing. The Marquee displayed on a school board was *not* a religious phrase, but a patriotic one. If you are going to argue that people should be allowed to force patriotic messages down from a billboard, I will step from the realm of opinion and say you are dead fucking wrong.

In the words of Yngwie Malmsteen, after finishing his 5th or 6th consecutive recital of "The Star Spangled Banner" in front of thousands of asshole Brazillians, who were throwing shit and shouting "Bin Laden!" the whole time: "God Bless America. And fuck you all!"

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Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.

10-22-01 9:13am (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

quote:
And OFTEN go overboard to win a case.

Such as when? What constitutes going overboard, in your opinion?

quote:

Not to mention, while they claim "free speech", they are constantly attempting to silence anything that isn't decidedly liberal, such as a harmless phrase like "God Bless America".

They do not want public schools hanging signs and banners about God. Do you? Speaking for myself, the government is not my minister, and the Capitol is not my church.

quote:

Next, they're going to go for the gold: getting "In God We Trust" off our money,

I hope so. It doesn't belong there. It was placed there during the Civil War at the behest of a minister. Congress made it our national motto in 1956, during the height of the McCarthyite persecutions.

That our government and many citizens cannot understand the phrase no law respecting an establishment of religion is a national disgrace.

quote:

and making it illegal to practice religion in any way that you may actually be seen.

Then, onto making it illegal to *not* be a minority.


You can read about the causes in which the ACLU is involved here:

http://www.aclu.org/news/pressind.html

If you object to a certain case you find there, I'd sure love to hear about it.

You know, they're taking on John Ashcroft, our fundamentalist Attorney General, because he wants to "protect children" by censoring the internet. Sound good to you?

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What others say about boorite!

10-22-01 9:24am (new)
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kaufman
Director of Cats

Member Rated:

Wirthling may suck, but he's also right.

The ACLU is actually a most conservative organization, believing in the precepts of a 212-year-old document that is supposed to be the Law of the Land. Among its shockingly awful positions:

[list][*]Free speech is free speech
[*]People have the right to do what they want with their own bodies, including viewing controversial materials, ingesting politically incorrect substances, and arranging for medical procedures to terminate their own pregnancies.
[*]People have the right not to be arrested or detained simply because they look different.
[*]The US Constitution fairly strictly limits the powers of the Federal Government. Abuses of such should not be tolerated, nor should criminal acts (murder, theft, harassment, invasion of privacy) done in the name of Uncle Sam.
[*]There is no official national religion or religious stance; thus, the government should not take any action suggestive of one.
[*]Individuals have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
[*]Individuals have the right to fair treatment by law enforcement authorities, and to a fair defense in court.
[*]Ours is a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Not the other way around!
[/list]

Pretty horrifying stuff, eh? And yet, I'm a card-carrying member.

---
ken.kaufman@gmail.com

10-22-01 9:33am (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

quote:
I bet I wouldn't get shit if I complained that I can't get a job because my hair is long.
But if I were gay, they'd throw money at me.

Let me get this straight: You don't want to get fired for having long hair, but you don't want the ACLU fighting to give sexual orientation the same protection?

Or are you saying that your long hair should be similarly protected-- so you could sue your employer, in which case you'd need the ACLU or something like it?

I admit I don't get it.

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What others say about boorite!

10-22-01 9:33am (new)
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attitudechicka
is never bored.

Member Rated:

quote:

The KKK actually utilized the ACLU once. The group wanted to "Adopt a Highway" and the state wouldn't allow it. So, the KKK went to the ACLU, asked for help, and the ACLU got that Adopt a Highway sign put up!

That's St. Louis for you. They don't have a sign currently, however. Everyone keeps stealing them. They have a 24 hour camera on the sign now (when one is up).

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Mediocrity at its most average.

10-22-01 9:34am (new)
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Spankling
Looking for love in ALL the wrong places, baby!

Member Rated:


A cheer goes up among the enlightened.

Reading that stuff makes me all misty, like watching "It's a Wonderful Life" after drinking rum all night.

---
"Jelly-belly gigglin, dancin and a-wigglin, honey that's the way I am!" Janice the Muppet

10-22-01 10:13am (new)
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lemur68
Member - Tobor Fan Club

Member Rated:

ACLU Defends Nazis' Right To Defend ACLU Headquarters

http://www.theonion.com/onion3211/acludefends.html

But even though this makes fun of them, I still think you, DX, are a reactionary twit.

---
"America loves its kings, from George III to Larry." --HJS

10-22-01 10:37am (new)
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Spankling
Looking for love in ALL the wrong places, baby!

Member Rated:

[Click to view comic: 'DX fights to be free']

---
"Jelly-belly gigglin, dancin and a-wigglin, honey that's the way I am!" Janice the Muppet

10-22-01 10:46am (new)
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lemur68
Member - Tobor Fan Club

Member Rated:

quote:
ACLU Defends Nazis' Right To Defend ACLU Headquarters


uh, that should read "Burn Down ACLU yadda yadda"....

---
"America loves its kings, from George III to Larry." --HJS

10-22-01 10:50am (new)
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wirthling
supercalifragilisticexpialadosucks

Member Rated:

Sorry for all the typos in my previous post. I was in a hurry and didn't proof-read. Hope it made sense anyway.

---
"And Wirthling isn't worth the paper he isn't printed on."

10-22-01 11:23am (new)
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ObiJo
Eamus Catuli

Member Rated:

Some little birdy told me "Free Speech is Free Speech." However, there were cases in my own state where the ACLU was fighting against VOLUNTARY praying in schools. No praying during moments of silence. No meetings of a christian club on campus. No posted banners for churches on campus. I see nothing wrong with non-forced religion in school. These are all individual practices, and within individual rights.

I also have no problem with schools (that is, non-individual rights) hanging "God Bless America" signs. Even as an atheist. It comes down to Majority rules versus minority rights. A christian is in NO WAY violating a muslim or a jew's freedom of religion by hanging a banner. In the same way, a christian country is in no way violating its minority citizens' rights by doing the same.

I believe in the seperation of church and state. But seperation of church and state, as outlined in the first amendment,

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

is explicitly stating that the government should stay out of religion. The founders purpose was to prevent the government from creating some governmentally forced religion and forcing its citizenry to practice. This is FAR different from allowing a God Bless America sign on government property. In fact by passing laws to remove this God Bless America sign, you'd actually be breaking the first amendment by "prohibing the free excercise thereof." You'd be limiting individual and majority rights (of a predominantly christian citizenship) for an ill-conceived notion of what seperation of church and state means.

My problem with the ACLU is that they have a political agenda. Or maybe I'm wrong and have missed all the cases the ACLU has done for their pro-smoking, anti-abortion picketing, anti-affirmative action clientele.

Shouldn't this be in the Arguments Go Here forum? This is ruining my comic buzz.

---
I ate a hooker half a bottle of knife.

10-22-01 4:21pm (new)
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