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andydougan
Film critic subordinaire

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When I was feeding my cats this morning, they all kept getting distracted by something in the seemingly empty doorway. One of them even growled at this same spot. I've sometimes seen my cats fascinated by what appears to be empty space, but until today, only individually. Could it be that there are ghosts in my house which fall outside of a human's perceptible spectral range, but within a cat's?

3-18-02 12:18pm (new)
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bunnerabb
Some bloke.

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That or you farted by the doorway.

---
I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

3-18-02 12:54pm (new)
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KajunFirefly
chooby digital (in stereo)

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Perhaps they are seeing "Mothman", the prophecy of bad things to come, in which case I wouldn't worry about it. But when your cats start to see Richard Gere lurking in doorways, it's time to head for the hills.

---
Dad was flammable

3-18-02 5:43pm (new)
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Jael
Resident Wench

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Okay, just so everyone knows I'm not weird psychic guru type person, but I definitely have some sort of weird radar for "unexplainable" otherworldish events.
And I am a firm believer that children and animals are conduits for a lot of this type of stuff. Adults too, given the right circumstances.

Andy, the former feline resident of my house did the same thing. At first I just thought it was an odd quirk. Then I noticed a pattern with her behavior.
I lived in a condo that had a small hallway that separated the bedroom and the bathroom. The cat would not cross that small 4x4 area during certain times of the day or night unless I picked her up. She would sit at the line where the doorframe was and just sat there in constant alert mode. Then at a certain time...she would cross it and go into whatever room her original destination was.

At night she always laid at the foot of the bed, facing the doorway watching almost a protective posture. There were times I could swear I heard someone walking across the carpet..and in that small section it was definitely a feeling of being watched.
When those moments came, she would hop off the bed and lay in the doorway and let out those low growls in her throat. Definitely, discomforting moments. In the mornings, she would wait until whatever blocked her way had moved, and she'd cross the area and go into other parts of the apt.

I thought maybe the place was wiggy. When I moved, to the new place, it stopped for a while. But then, she started doing it again, this time refusing to budge from the top landing of the stairs at night. In a way I thought of her as a watchcat. She passed away, but the new kitten has some intriguing behavior too. The first time she pulled that "begging for food from someone my owner can't see" things like out of Poltergeist. It creeped me out. My father who is always rational and logical sort, said that it is probably just that there is a draft or something that makes them like the spot.

I'm spookily inclined enough to believe differently.

P.S. Interesting thing I recently found out...objects such as antiques or the like often are thought to carry some sort of energy of their former owners. Since my house is plastered with dead people's furniture...it rather makes sense.

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Women are fisher's of men because we all know.... The small ones you throw back. The medium ones you eat. The large ones you mount.

3-18-02 7:49pm (new)
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DexX
What the Cat Dragged In

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You never did finish that story about Fooferkitty and the ouija board. I told a story in the thread in which you originally posted those strips, about the first flat that Bec and I shared which definitely had something creepy going on, including (but not limited to) footsteps from no visible source travelling across the entire length of the flat, shadows on walls and floors cast by no visible person, and (in the scariest instance) a brief but frightening apparition seen by Bec.

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This signature has performed an illegal operation and has been shut down.

3-18-02 9:05pm (new)
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dcomposed
C3H5N3O9

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maybe theres an insect or something the cat is looking at but you cant see it because you are looking for something bigger than say a moth or a bee.

---
Batman created by Bob Kane

3-18-02 10:37pm (new)
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Jael
Resident Wench

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Yeah...the fooferkitty thing drained me..besides its hard to make something like that funny. I think the scariest thing in the old place, was having a voice coming out of the speaker saying my name at 3 am. The stereo or tv wasn't on. That and the footsteps. In this place, before Breezycat passed away, I had "something" coming up and touching me. I constantly get freaky stuff like that. I finally had a friend who's Native American and practicing Shaman come in and cleanse the place.

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Women are fisher's of men because we all know.... The small ones you throw back. The medium ones you eat. The large ones you mount.

3-19-02 12:18am (new)
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wirthling
supercalifragilisticexpialadosucks

Member Rated:

Does he do windows, too?

---
"And Wirthling isn't worth the paper he isn't printed on."

3-19-02 12:26am (new)
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Jael
Resident Wench

Member Rated:

yeah...that whole voodoo "wax on wax off" thang ;)

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Women are fisher's of men because we all know.... The small ones you throw back. The medium ones you eat. The large ones you mount.

3-19-02 2:44am (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

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Lay off the peyote, you mooks.

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3-19-02 7:52am (new)
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Jael
Resident Wench

Member Rated:

Hums..."you say "Pay oh tee.., I say Pe yot ee"

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Women are fisher's of men because we all know.... The small ones you throw back. The medium ones you eat. The large ones you mount.

3-19-02 7:57am (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

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Cats can certainly hear a lot of things we can't-- about an octave lower and two octaves higher than your typical adult human. It could be that there's an infra- or ultrasonic standing wave getting the cats' attention. These can be created by air-handling equipment or any other moving, vibrating machinery, or even by wind currents and lots of other things. Certain infrasonic frequencies are known to induce that "haunted" feeling and even hallucinations in humans, and at least one famous haunting has been solved by looking for standing waves (20 hz in this case).

Cats also might pay attention to sounds that don't interest us. A slightly squeaky hinge or house-settling noise might sound like prey to them.

Cats may also see things we don't, not because those things are invisible, but because we're not looking for them. Someone else suggested a small bug. It could be that, or anything that moves, like a swirl of dust, or even anything that looks like a bug or anything else that might interest a cat-- even if it doesn't look that way to you. For instance, the other week, my cat was staring intently at the bathroom door, his hair standing practically on end. There was nothing there, and no one in the bathroom, and no water running or anything. But he'd reach out a paw as if to probe something and then jerk it back as if shocked, making those weird bird-hunting-type vocalizations all the while. I spoke to him and then reached out to him, and he jumped backward, spitting and hissing, so suddenly and violently that he opened a big cut on my wrist. I think he'd been investigating a corner of a Kleenex that was sticking under the door. He'd decided it was evil and dangerous and thrilling.

People have always explained curious phenomena by reference to supernatural forces, sometimes I think because of a lack of imagination, other times because of a will to believe in the survival of bodily death. When rational explanations surface for their observations, they seldom discard the theory but instead reject the evidence or seek out new evidence that supports their conclusion. Starting with your conclusion and working backward to the evidence is sometimes called "a priori reasoning," and it signals a need to believe.

If I were going to evaluate a claim that there was a ghost around, and that the cat or others could perceive it, I'd have to ask certain questions, like, what's the proposed mechanism here? You mentioned spectra. Spectra of what? If light is bouncing off of it (making a shadow, as in DexX's example), then what is the light bouncing off of, and why shouldn't we therefore be able to see it, and how could a dead person make it happen? If it makes a sound, then let's speculate on what is causing compression and rarefaction of the elastic medium we call air, and-- again-- how this is linked to being a dead person.

One question I would have to ask is, if a disembodied human soul can effect changes on the physical environment, why does it ever need a body, and why can't we seem to do ghost tricks while living? Seems like it'd come in handy, right? You could send messages without a cell phone, spy on people invisibly, and all kinds of neat stuff.

A more basic question is why our minds go straight to supernatural explanations when confronted with weird events. It's one thing to say, "the cat sees something I don't see," and quite another to say "the cat sees the ghost of Mrs. Dinglethwaite." And I'm speaking not as a detached, cool, scientific observer, but as a person who has had hair-raising-- literally hair-raising-- experiences of the weird and strange and hard-to-explain kind. I've seen ghosts (or faries or aliens) and I'm scared of them. But there is always the possibility that I hallucinated, or that my perceptions tricked me.

---
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3-19-02 4:10pm (new)
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wirthling
supercalifragilisticexpialadosucks

Member Rated:

Killjoy.

---
"And Wirthling isn't worth the paper he isn't printed on."

3-19-02 4:21pm (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

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Jael, I'm curious as to what kind of energy a person could imbue his furniture with, and how another person might sense it, and particularly how it could transmit anything of the former owner's personality. Seriously, let's make some wild speculations and see where we can go with them.

I have an alternative explanation. You said "objects like antiques and the like," and I thought, "yes, why is it usually antiques and the like?" I mean, why wouldn't a less obviously creepy-looking thing be just as likely to be haunted? Or if it's magnetism or something at work, why wouldn't we sense loudspeakers or other magnetic objects in the same way? And couldn't we devise some experiments using all kinds of objects that belonged to dead people to see if subjects experienced them as haunted? For that matter, why would it have to be dead people? Wouldn't you yourself leave "energy" in your furniture? Fresher energy, as well? So that a person sitting there would be as likely to sense you as the former owners? Where was I? Oh yeah, an alternative explanation: People perceive antiques as haunted because antiques look haunted.

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3-19-02 4:33pm (new)
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andydougan
Film critic subordinaire

Member Rated:

Indeed - I was being pretty frivolous when I suggested it could have been a ghost, but I did consider the possibility that it could have been some other kind of phenomenon invisible to human beings. My cats have done things not unlike yours, treating inanimate objects as prey. I put this down to their individual imaginations, which is why I thought it strange that three cats would simultaneously react in the same manner to the same uninteresting doorway.

By the way, I agree with your views on ghosts. It's surprising that many otherwise rational people believe that there exist body-independent souls which carry with them intellect obviously dependent on the physical makeup of the brain.

3-19-02 4:34pm (new)
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DexX
What the Cat Dragged In

Member Rated:

I don't leap to conclusions on these kinds of topics. Most of the weird, creepy things I have experienced have been caused by perfectly reasonable phenomena. However, in that flat there were three separate events that I couldn't explain reasonably. I have done a lot of high school physics, so I know about light interference patterns and the like, but...

I had just finished my shower, and was just starting to dry meyself, when I clearly heard, in this order: our screen door open; our front door open; our screen door close; our front door close; soft footsteps across the carpeted living room; louder footsteps in the hallways right outside the bathroom; and finally loud, obviously female, clicking high-heel footsteps across the tiles kitchen. i figured Bec was home from work early, said hello, didn't get a reply, said hello again, still no reply. I was alone in the flat and the doors were locked.

Another occasion, standing in the kitchen, I saw a human-shaped shadow cast on the floor of the hallway, coming out of the bathroom. It stodd still, moved one way, moved the other way, then vanished. Yes, there were curtains on the window in there, but I was quite familiar with the kinds of shadows they cast.

The third event may have scared me, but it scared Bec very badly. In that flat our bed was up close, sideways, to a big window. One night I went to bed before Bec, and had the light off, so the only light was coming from the streetlight outside, slightly illuminating the curtains. I was snuggled up under the blankets, when Bec walked into the room (the door was opposite the window). She came in, talked to me, took a few more steps, then I could _hear_ that she had been frightened by something. She asked if I had just been sitting up in bed, and I replied that I hadn't - I had been curled up on my side, back to the door. She told me that when she came into the room, she had seen a silhouette - presumably me - sitting up in the bed, staring at her. The reason she had talked to me when she first came in was that the staring had made her uncomfortable, and she had said something like, "What's wrong?" When she had looked next, I was curled up on my side.

All three of these can be explained without any kind of recourse to supernatural phenomenon, but they were rather creepy at the time, and coupled with a shocking nightmare I had the first night we stayed there, gave me a very bad feeling about that flat. We weren't sorry to move out.

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This signature has performed an illegal operation and has been shut down.

3-19-02 5:50pm (new)
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Jael
Resident Wench

Member Rated:

I'm with Dexx, even though my scientific side wants to find a "reason" for everything and sometimes has been able to, I've had too many very odd, strange experiences that cannot be proven away or explained. I don't believe that demons are going to infest my body and make me spew split pea soup or make me kill people in their name. There is a group here in Houston that "Ghost Hunts." They originally started out as a group of scientific minded folks from Rice U hell bent on proving some local "phenomena" was logically explained, and ended up trying to prove that the phenoma was otherworldly.

I read a cool book once about how it might not be "spirits of the dead" as we think of them...but our subconscious minds..."travelling." We aren't aware we are doing it and explains the whole "deja vu" thing or why we get a glimpse of figures that aren't supposed to be there. Someone just wandered into our conscious without intending to be seen. The whole "primordial man" way of communicating that is still ingrained in us, but we don't use it. Pretty interesting and it was written by a Catholic Priest/former science type figure.

My opinion it all boils down to whether you choose to believe it or not. If you don't then great, you won't be bothered. If you do, you might get a brush with something from time to time. And you can hone the skill to tune into whatever it is. Man tries to explain everything away...be it religion, ethics, etc. I feel sometimes you just have to throw it out the window and accept that you know nothing. Now if I can just get those little shadow people that seem to streak by in the wee hours of the morning..and the damn pookas that keep moving things around I'd be happy. ;)

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Women are fisher's of men because we all know.... The small ones you throw back. The medium ones you eat. The large ones you mount.

3-20-02 2:03am (new)
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TheBlairZip
Makes a Great Meal

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We had always suspected that there was a supernatural presence in the house due to freaky occurances - things being knocked off shelves, sounds of movement in empty rooms, even glimpses of a shadowy figure moving down the staircase. Most times, we'll feel someone sit on the edge of our bed, in the middle of the night, and start gently shaking the bed...just enough to wake us up. A friend of ours from out of town actually saw a figure standing in the bedroom doorway, walk over to the bed, and sit down on the edge. Figuring it was one of us, he spoke out my roommates name. At that same moment, my roommate walked in and turned on the light, revealing that no one was in the room but him. The most recent occurance was the scariest for us, though:

We keep all the doors in our house closed at all times. My roommate had run over to local convenience store for 15 minutes, and when she came back every single door in the house was wide open...including the front door, which she had locked when she left. Every bedroom door, bathroom door, closet...every single door in the house. Nothing had been taken or moved, and there were no signs of a forced entry. The doors were just open and that was it.

Needless to say, this freaked our shit right out. We immediately called a friend of ours who is 'in tune' with the spirit world. He came over and had a private séance with our mysterious guest in the room where we've had the most activity. After about 45 minutes, he came out and told us that the ghost in our house is actually the spirit of an old Indian warrior that was cut down in his prime...right on the spot where our house was built. His spirit remains here because he refuses to believe that he is dead. When asked why he was trying to frighten us with his spooky deeds, he replied very simply, "I'm bored." We asked our friend if he would be able to send the ghost away, but he says that he would feel guilty about sending away a spirit that is still not ready to go. We said, "Well, we are ready for him to go. He's a fucking dead guy. Send him packing!" But no, the ghost remains.

Now, I told you that to tell you this: The cats that my ex-roommate kept in the house acted very much the same way. There were certain spots that they would avoid, as well. The biggest one was the spot on the stairs where I usually see the shadowy figure stand. They would leap over the same 2 steps every time they were on the stairs. We thought that the ghost was the cause for their strange and erratic behavior. It wasn't until later that we finally figured out that these kittens were actually just fucked in the head and enjoyed pissing and shitting everywhere except for their litterbox.

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If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have no luck at all. D'OH!

3-20-02 7:48am (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

BlairZip: A million bucks says I can find your "ghost" and get rid of him in a couple of days!

This is a very interesting story, and I have no doubt that you're experiencing something that's hard to explain. This is excellent fodder for discussion-- classic really.

quote:
We had always suspected that there was a supernatural presence in the house due to freaky occurances - things being knocked off shelves, sounds of movement in empty rooms, even glimpses of a shadowy figure moving down the staircase.

Here's the first thing that should ring alarm bells. Freaky stuff happens, and we suspect a supernatural cause. Why should this suspicion be preferred over a rational one, like the cats or the roommates getting
up to mischief, or house noises, or tricks of perception, etc.? Your wording evidences a bias: Things do not "fall" off of shelves but are "knocked off"; sounds are not bumps or clicks or whatever but "sounds of movement." That's ascribing an awful lot to these events, and a skeptical observer might interpret them differently.

The "glimpse of a shadowy figure" is very common. Usually these things are grey and seen in the peripheral vision, and they disappear when looked at directly. The folks in the haunted lab I referred to earlier saw these all the time until they got rid of the 20 hz standing wave.

quote:

Most times, we'll feel someone sit on the edge of our bed, in the middle of the night, and start gently shaking the bed...just enough to wake us up. A friend of ours from out of town actually saw a figure standing in the bedroom doorway, walk over to the bed, and sit down on the edge.

See how these things tend to happen while you're lying in bed at night? Entirely consistent with a hypnagogic hallucination. I've had them. In fact, mine were exactly like the alien abduction experiences Whitley Streiber reported in his book Communion. But they happened a few decades before that book appeared, when I was five or six years old.

About all the doors being opened: Too bad that never happens when someone is there to see it! Anyway, it's quite a jump from "all the doors were opened while I was away" to "supernatural forces opened all the doors." Could've been a prankster, maybe an acquaintance who knew you were feeling spooked already. As for there being no sign of forced entry-- if you have to be a ghost to pull that off, then I must be a ghost!

Let's see that disembodied bastard do that trick when the floor is dusted with flour and we have video cameras running.

As for your sensitive friend and the story he came up with, here's an idea: Get a bunch of other mediums to come over and see what the spirits tell them. The mediums are not allowed to know you or talk to you or your friend, or each other, or the person running the experiment, who also must not know the story. A double-blind test.

Or get the medium to tell you something he couldn't possibly know.

I mean, he could have just made up that Indian warrior story, right?

---
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3-20-02 1:00pm (new)
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JrnymnNate
I fling the shoddy polo stick

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Scully- I mean Boorite rules!

3-20-02 1:06pm (new)
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KajunFirefly
chooby digital (in stereo)

Member Rated:

Holy shit, my underwear just flew off and floated out the window and when I looked out to see them land in the garden, someone had written "You've been wearing these since last summer!" in the grass.

Surely all you fellow cat owners have noticed that cats are generally quite insane creatures, I mean, if any of you try and tell me that your cat doesn't have little insane episodes where it will happily stalk then run away from random pieces of furniture then I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but that's a hamster you're raising there.

Sure, cats will stare at nothing and seem facinated by it, but that's just cats, they do that, live with it.

---
Dad was flammable

3-20-02 1:14pm (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

Yeah, just this morning, one of my cats jumped four feet in the air when he heard the toaster pop up.

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3-20-02 2:06pm (new)
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andydougan
Film critic subordinaire

Member Rated:

But it was their having a collective hallucination that seemed peculiar to me. Even so, I'm with our resident sceptic. This issue, like most, can be resolved by acknowledging the weirdness of cats.

3-20-02 2:15pm (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

Actually, I am bothered. I think that understanding how the world works is one of the most important human endeavors, and this particular point in history is no time to be careless about it. When any claims arise regarding reality, I think it's important to investigate them, and when something unexplained happens, it's important to find out what and why. I can't adopt a laissez-faire attitude in the face of so much sloppy thinking and outright fraud as we see emerging from mystical thinking.

I get them anyway! In fact, even being a skeptic, I'm very hesitant to casually say "show me," as if I'm immune to whatever is causing the believer's perceptions.

quote:
I feel sometimes you just have to throw it out the window and accept that you know nothing.

Why would I accept that? It isn't true. I mean, we don't know everything, but we know more than nothing, and we know a hell of a lot more than our superstitious ancestors. I'm not sure what you mean by "proving away" anything, but I don't like this idea of throwing rational inquiry out the window-- not when it comes to claims about the universe we live in.
quote:

Now if I can just get those little shadow people that seem to streak by in the wee hours of the morning
I told you: LAY OFF THE PEYOTE!!

Or pay-OHT-ee...

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3-20-02 2:43pm (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

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Who says they were hallucinating? Maybe they heard or saw something that you didn't notice. Or maybe one of them saw something, and the others noticed him seeing it. Try standing under a tree and staring intently up into the foliage (unless you live in Scotland): Without saying a word, you'll have several people looking up there with you. Cats do similarly.

Frequently, I find all three cats gathered around some spot, and I'm damned if I can tell why. Likewise, I'm sure that if they had the brains to form a question, they'd love to know why I'm always staring at perfectly uninteresting pieces of paper.

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3-20-02 2:50pm (new)
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