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andydougan
Film critic subordinaire

Member Rated:

Er, except I didn't think. I meant Tito replacing Stalin, of course.

12-12-03 2:17pm (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

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That's not true that they didn't try [a coup against Saddam]. I'll look up a link or something when I'm more lucid.

OK,let's bookmark that.

Some of the sanctions did indeed hurt the Iraqi people. The weapons sanctions (and those on dual-use technologies) weakened Saddam greatly. I think Noam would agree on that.

Actually he killed quite a few more, if I'm not mistaken.

It will be interesting to see if the people are better off under the new regime than under Saddam. Time will tell. If not, that's pretty scary.

Yeah, probably more of a Somoza or Pinochet.

But the US is still there. HAW.

But really, it looks like we've come down to arguing whether the US has invaded to install another Saddam, or just a better dictator. So the next step is to examine the costs of this war and decide if even the better outcome was worth it.

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What others say about boorite!

12-12-03 2:53pm (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

During the Indochina wars, certainly. That was atrocious.

One difference is that Reagan's wars in Central America were secret. This is because of what Bush I called "Vietnam Syndrome," the sickly reluctance to commit international violence, which drove Washington's aggression underground. Bush I announced the disease was "whipped" with the invasion of Panama. The current Gulf War is a continuation of that trend-- albeit to unprecedented domestic resistance, here and abroad. So maybe Vietnam Syndrome is not whipped after all.

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What others say about boorite!

12-12-03 3:37pm (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

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Or rather, we should be weighing them against the human cost of allowing neo-Nazis the power of life and death over twenty million people.


How many times do I have to tell you people, Saddam was a Stalinist? But kidding aside, yes, that is more or less the balance we should be weighing, although I think "allowing" is a little too liberal a word for the kind of pressure we can bring on a despot without bombing his country.

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So if North Korea bombs Seoul and excuses it by saying America did the same to Iraq, the international community will just stand aside and let them get on with it? I doubt this. Why would the US's lawless behaviour make it more acceptable for other states to follow suit?

Why wouldn't it? South Korea certainly poses a threat to North Korea, and is certainly hostile, and is backed by a superpower (the superpower) who has shown no qualms about using force unlawfully, and has even threatened to use nuclear weapons. Note that North Korea has responded by accelerating its nuclear weapons program amid much saber-rattling. This, they reason, is the only thing that can deter a US attack-- and who can say they're wrong, after this Iraq invasion?

So-- has this war made the world safer, on balance? Is dislodging Saddam (to be replaced, at best, with a better dictator) worth a nuclear standoff in Asia?

How about China? Aren't they justified to make a grab for Taiwan now? Who's to say no? And who's to stop them?

The US has set a dangerous precedent. That is the consensus of legal and diplomatic scholars around the world, if I'm not mistaken. And for what? Possibly, a better dictator than Saddam.

We should also talk about the comparative suffering of Iraqis under Saddam versus under US invasion and its aftermath.

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What others say about boorite!

12-12-03 3:54pm (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

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This is probably true, but it's not much of an increase. The Islamic world already hated America about as much as it could, so I doubt it's made much difference. A tiny increase in risk for one people is a small price to pay to free another people from a far greater danger.


I think you overestimate how much "the Islamic world" hated America, or how tiny an increase this illegal invasion caused in any such hatred. I think this has basically functioned as an Al Qaeda recruiting drive.

And you and I are both questioning just how much we're "freeing" Iraq from despostism.

Anyway, back to the hatred. Whether it's small or large, it's a problem. And when you're faced with a problem, you can act to make it better, or make it worse, or do nothing. Well, in this case, we both agree that the war has made it worse. You say a little worse, and I say a lot worse. But I think we'd agree that doing nothing would have been preferable, all other things being equal; and reducing the hatred would have been even better. Other things being equal, we chose the worst course.

We're still deciding whether or not other things are being equal, I know.

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What others say about boorite!

12-12-03 4:26pm (new)
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MaKK_BeNN
VOTE JEB BUSH 2008

Member Rated:

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The problem with your argument is that one covert attack against America could be catastrophic. You need to identify a potential attacker of the United States, not someone who is already attacking us. I still say Saddam fit the bill for this.

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But you cited a "pattern of behavior." There was no such pattern. Now you're back to sheer speculation.


So you are saying Saddam Hussein was a nice, non-aggressive world leader who showed a lot of promise? Are you saying if we find him still alive we should put him back in power and admit we were wrong?

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And actually they did plan at least one attack against President George Bush Sr. following the war, so you're wrong there also.
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No, I'm aware of this bogus claim, and have been since 1993, when Clinton used it as an excuse to launch a missile attack on Baghdad that killed 8 civilians. The NYT noted "that the judgment of Iraq's guilt was based on circumstantial evidence and analysis rather than ironclad intelligence." There was also a major New Yorker piece on this by Seymour Hersh, now posted here.

In any case, an alleged, failed assassination attempt in 1993 does not constitute grounds for invading a country in 2002. It does not even constitute a "pattern of behavior." Nor is it a terrorist attack on US soil. Your "reason" fails on all counts.


I looked through that article "proving" there was no plot. Looks like he was saying he could see as much cause for saying there wasn't an plot as there one. One article saying there was no plot in a sea of information. Big deal, it just sounds like more of this "speculation" you're so scared of. Why would Clinton strike Iraq with missiles if the pretext were so filmsy? It seemed to me when Clinton should have called for military action, he called for a few cruise missiles. And he should have called for military action then also.

I think such a plot is relevant, it certainly demonstrates the animosity Saddam's regime felt towards America. Planning a covert terrorist plot on American soil is definitely relevant.

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If you want to look at a pattern of behavior, how about this: Saddam had 12 years from Desert Shield to December 2002 to launch a terror attack against us. He never did. Not even when his regime faced certain destruction at our hands. Monster though he certainly is, he doesn't seem bent on terror attacks against the US.
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You can't suddenly launch a covert, coordinated terror attack. It's not a missle with a bunch of extremists tied to it, boorite.
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So there is no pattern. In fact, the lack of a pattern is, oddly, in your world, evidence that a sudden attack could be launched. Another "paradox," no doubt.


I'm sorry that one time I used the word paradox shook you so much. Saddam was a dangerous leader, he gassed Kurds, he through political opponents into meat grinders, he had anyone he even suspected of being against him drug off and shot, he invaded a country, he continued to violate no-fly zones, he continued to illegally profit from oil sales, and there was evidence of WMD activity after inspections following the first Persian Gulf War. Yeah, sounds like this guy was a fucking modern day Jimmy Carter.

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I still don't see how you confuse a country run by Saddam Hussein with a small peaceful nation in Europe. I'm glad your political powers are relegated to that of the reference section of the library.

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I didn't confuse them. I said your "logic" could apply to practically any country we wished to invade, which you acknowledge just below.


If the leader of Luxemburg has done any of the above things I mentioned I would support removing that leader.

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But that's the idea of the US's new doctrine: We can invade anyone, anytime, on any pretext. That's not an over-interpretation-- I think that's pretty much the policy, straight out.
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Ok, fine with me. I don't see how this is different that any other war we've been in anyway.
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I think it's different from WWII. But the important point is, you've acknowledged the doctrine of violence at will. Thank you.


Yes, war is a vehicle of force, not words.

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I still don't understand what law Congress passed that is being broken.
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I'm not sure how much clearer I can state that the Senate ratified the UN Charter in 1945.


So then why is the Supreme Court not doing anything? I'm confused.

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No, the President swears, on the Bible, in front of the whole world, to "preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States." Which is the opposite of ignoring and violating it. He is breaking the law that he is sworn to uphold. Surely even someone who confuses authoritarianism with democracy can understand the difference between upholding the law and breaking it.
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Then why isn't he being impeached? Is it because most sane individuals don't believe this?
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No US President who ever committed a war crime has ever been impeached for it, and that includes a lot of them. As I said, we'd be stupid to expect governments to indict themselves on crimes against humanity. It's usually up to us citizens to drum them out of office.


So you admit we are governing ourselves, even to the extent of determining when we need to go to war. Interesting. I also note the political climate of the country isn't anywhere near calling for the President to leave office. Even more interesting, don't you think?

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There is no Constitutional basis for securing life and liberty of American citizens?
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There is no basis in the Constitution for abrogating treaties at will based on "preventive" notions of "protecting our security." Furthermore, I think it's pretty clear that the current war does not secure our life and liberty but places us at increased and unnecessary risk.


How is that clear? Also the Constitution does make it clear that we should be protected, how we do it is not stated. Precision air assault aren't mentioned in the Constitution, so what?

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Then why bother caring about a U.N. mandate if the body is not democratic in nature?

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See US Constitution.


But what's the point of applying a body's will -made up of undemocratic elements- (and elements who are not interested in our own security) to our own democracy? Was Saddam always fully cooperative with the U.N.?

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Well has the Supreme Court struck down the law? No? Oh I guess it's still legal then.

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That doesn't follow.


The law stands as long as the Supreme Court doesn't strike it down. So what law has been broken?

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Almost seems like ICJ is an ineffectual body. Interesting.

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Quite ineffectual when the most powerful nation in history defies it. Hilarious, isn't it? We call it ineffectual and see to it that this is so.


Maybe it's only purpose should be to serve our interests, if it can do nothing to stop us then.

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Wouldn't it embarass him if his political enemies had a call for his arrest though? Seems like someone would try to do this if there was a reasonable argument that he had broken a law.
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You know very well that he has, whether someone tries to arrest him or not. I mean, who's going to arrest the President of the US?


You keep declaring that he has so obviously broken the law. What law did he break? Why can't you tell me?

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Bush declared war out in the open. What law did he break by doing this?
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So did Tojo.


Again, I ask you what law he broke? Hello? The law of Boorite Must be Consulted on All Wars First?

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

12-12-03 11:25pm (new)
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andydougan
Film critic subordinaire

Member Rated:

Layz and genulmen...we got 'im!

I'll reply to boorite soon.

12-14-03 6:46am (new)
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MaKK_BeNN
VOTE JEB BUSH 2008

Member Rated:

Ok, in accordance with boorite's wishes, we'd better re-install him as leader of Iraq. Hup to, get to it.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

12-14-03 3:39pm (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

Ho, ho. I've been calling Saddam Hussein a monster since 1989, including here in these threads. I don't think there's any use "arguing" with someone who continually, deliberately misrepresents you.

But I'll be in touch with you, Dougan.

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What others say about boorite!

12-14-03 9:26pm (new)
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MaKK_BeNN
VOTE JEB BUSH 2008

Member Rated:

So you admit the war was justified then.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

12-14-03 10:19pm (new)
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MikeyG
Shoots the shit and often misses

Member Rated:

Actually, this guy was a modern-day FIDEL CASTRO, who, incidentally, is still in power, was trained and educated by the U.S., and whose colored history is a lot more of a threat to America. Christ, Saddam was a mean, evil, nasty little fucker. I, nor anyone else on this (the RATIONAL) side of the argument, is supporting Saddam, and neither do we want him back in power. I am also not saying that it was perfectly okay for him to kill all those innocent Kurds and Shi'ites. What I HAVE been saying, for all you people who seem to harp on things like usage of the word 'sheep' and other such pedantic semantics, is that before we can decide to be the World's police force, we have to FIX THE DOMESTIC PROBLEMS WE FACE!!! Damn it, what can't you understand about that? And MAYBE if they had said, "We are the world's police force, and we have to start policing SOMEWHERE." as a reason for the war, there would be less ardent opposition. I, personally, would still oppose it, but at least I would be in opposition of a less nonsensical reasoning process. Only marginally, mind you, but still nonsensical.

We are all glad the evil despot is now in the hands of the U.S.' evil despot. BUT...Where the fuck is Osama? Doesn't anyone remember that shit? WHERE THE FUCK IS OSAMA? And listen, people, if we toasted Saddam that fast and the poor bastard couldn't even get out of his country, he wasn't much of a threat AT ALL. Give it up.

PLUS, I know that Saddam's capture is going to be a major public relations wet dream for the Bush Administration. They are going to use it blatantly as an excuse to be untouchable. The Bush Admin will now consider itself above criticism because they caught Saddam. NO THEY DIDN'T. Our brothers and sisters did, people. Fucking remember that or be doomed with the blindness of the ignorant for your personal eternity.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

12-15-03 11:05am (new)
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MaKK_BeNN
VOTE JEB BUSH 2008

Member Rated:

So you admit this is a good thing, then.

What military action is it exactly that the U.S. is so desperately needing to do domestically, but putting off?

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

12-15-03 2:08pm (new)
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MikeyG
Shoots the shit and often misses

Member Rated:

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So you admit this is a good thing, then.

What military action is it exactly that the U.S. is so desperately needing to do domestically, but putting off?


That Saddam is no longer in power? Of course. How long have we been saying he IS a bad guy? It just shouldn't have been a priority.

See, here's where the problem is, you limited little lemur. There is no MILITARY action needed on U.S. soil. The BILLIONS of dollars used to undertake this grisly war could have been used for OTHER things, which you'd have to be a moron not to know about.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

12-15-03 3:05pm (new)
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JrnymnNate
I fling the shoddy polo stick

Member Rated:

money begets money. War is a great way to spend and make it.

12-15-03 3:18pm (new)
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MaKK_BeNN
VOTE JEB BUSH 2008

Member Rated:

I think the war secures our prosperity, and prosperity means that we will have more resources to address our own problems.

I'm still not sure what is so pressing that we are not fixing, or that there is a clear course of action and consensus on how to fix existing problems. If not knowing the answer to these problems makes me a lemur, then every member of Congress for the last thirty years are also lemurs then. I think the issue there is more political gridlock then anything else. Lemurs are also relatively smart animals, I'm not sure if I see the insult there.

A lot of these issues are lacking in solutions because of political will, not money. This war doesn't stop or delay any domestic programs, though I'm sure it takes some heat of the fact Congress can't seem to do anything other than preserve the status quo.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

12-15-03 4:39pm (new)
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jes_lawson
I don't know what I'm doing either

Member Rated:

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I think the war secures our prosperity, and prosperity means that we will have more resources to address our own problems.

What, you mean the problems that couldn't have been addressed by diverting $57 billion* into education, policing, health care, social reform, overseas development, etc...

I agree though, mAAk. Wars are always good for economies in the SHORT TERM**. Having said that, how long will it take the American taxpayer to recoup the $57 billion* spent on the war from oil profits?

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I'm still not sure what is so pressing that we are not fixing, or that there is a clear course of action and consensus on how to fix existing problems. If not knowing the answer to these problems makes me a lemur, then every member of Congress for the last thirty years are also lemurs then. I think the issue there is more political gridlock then anything else. Lemurs are also relatively smart animals, I'm not sure if I see the insult there.

Ignoring the lemur business, you're correct. The adversarial system of politics isn't condusive to building real solutions when politicans can never see the strengths of their opponents cases and acknowledge them.
On a slight tangent, the fact that every 4-12 years on average, a different political bias comes in and says "Right, folks - change of policy" and fails to carry through plans left in place by previous administrations does nothing to help anyone, except in the short term, which is the critical problem

Long term policy goals are never realised.

Going back to my first point above, how long do you think it will take the Republicans to reap the *real* rewards of the war? Beyond the short term "W00T!" Sucker Factor value, how long will it take real value to be gained from the military action in Iraq? The problems in the Middle East and indirectly, domestically, are not going to be fixed by this, the next or even the next after the next Republican administration.

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A lot of these issues are lacking in solutions because of political will, not money. This war doesn't stop or delay any domestic programs, though I'm sure it takes some heat of the fact Congress can't seem to do anything other than preserve the status quo.

Can you name me any domestic programs the Republicans started to implement when they came to power, please? I admit, I only hear about the foreign policy decisions, 99% of which I've rated "Pissed me off" or worse.

* - I can't remember exactly how much extra funds Bush wanted from Congress. I think it was $57 billion, but I'm too lazy to look it up. I stand to be corrected.
** - Yes, long term benefits from scientific developments derived from wartime applications have been immense - semaphore,the computer, nuclear fission, etc. But these have been double edged swords. this time round I can't see anything innovative coming to the punter at home beyond surplus MREs

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Please replace the handset, and try again.

12-15-03 5:45pm (new)
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MaKK_BeNN
VOTE JEB BUSH 2008

Member Rated:

I wasn't talking about a short term economic gain caused by an upshoot in the military industry, I mean a more secure Middle East will, in the long run, secure our prosperity.

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Going back to my first point above, how long do you think it will take the Republicans to reap the *real* rewards of the war? Beyond the short term "W00T!" Sucker Factor value, how long will it take real value to be gained from the military action in Iraq? The problems in the Middle East and indirectly, domestically, are not going to be fixed by this, the next or even the next after the next Republican administration.

I will agree it could be a while. I don't put this in the context of political parties though, the benefit will be to everyone. Iraq as a tourist destination would be a great thing for us and a great thing for the Middle East, politics aside.

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Can you name me any domestic programs the Republicans started to implement when they came to power, please? I admit, I only hear about the foreign policy decisions, 99% of which I've rated "Pissed me off" or worse.

I place the blame firmly on both parties for political gridlock.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

12-15-03 8:18pm (new)
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MikeyG
Shoots the shit and often misses

Member Rated:

Wait, so we are going to MAKE 74 billion dollars from the war? Wait, maybe I'm not thinking long-term enough. So, what's the timeline, exactly, to make BACK the 74 BILLION dollars spent on the war? Can you fathom how much money that actually is?

There is still a 'war on drugs', MaKK, which, incidentally, could be solved with some legalization. As for the BILLIONS of dollars towards the war, don't you think AIDS is a more pressing matter? Poverty? Cancer? You, my friend, are a heartless little git. No, we should go after foreign capitalist interests instead of perhaps curing cancer or MS or Alzheimer's or fucking HEMOPHILIA for chrissakes. What about slowing the aging process? What about better and more secure education? I see 74 billion dollars that could have funded serious research into cures for diseases, helped alleviate the 'ghetto' scenarios and turned back gentrification, and much, much more. You're pathetic.

And....?

Okay, then I'll have your boss/teacher/parent replaced with a lemur. Hell, why don't we have all SORTS of primates governing our destiny! Wait, we already do...

Wrong. AIDS research lacks funding, jackass. Stem cell research lacks FUNDING, jackass. Plus, the Bush Administration has been instrumental in allowing private companies to copyright findings of the Human Genome Mapping project, further securing the drug industry's capitalistic hold over true treatment for the sick. If money wasn't an issue, why are we even talking about this? Money is the ONLY issue to people like you and your ilk. Money=power.

Well, this may be the only thing we agree on.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

12-16-03 8:20am (new)
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MaKK_BeNN
VOTE JEB BUSH 2008

Member Rated:

Maybe you aren't paying attention. I said this will be a good thing for us in the long run. Why is it constantly about money with you? I guess I know where your mind is.

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There is still a 'war on drugs', MaKK, which, incidentally, could be solved with some legalization. As for the BILLIONS of dollars towards the war, don't you think AIDS is a more pressing matter? Poverty? Cancer? You, my friend, are a heartless little git. No, we should go after foreign capitalist interests instead of perhaps curing cancer or MS or Alzheimer's or fucking HEMOPHILIA for chrissakes. What about slowing the aging process? What about better and more secure education? I see 74 billion dollars that could have funded serious research into cures for diseases, helped alleviate the 'ghetto' scenarios and turned back gentrification, and much, much more. You're pathetic.

Legalizing drugs wouldn't cost money. I don't see how that enters into your argument of using this money for something else.

A lot of this money is just re-inserted back into our own economy, it's not dollars thrown into a research vacuum. Again, these issues have been around for a long time. The war in Iraq isn't causing them, or prolonging them.

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Okay, then I'll have your boss/teacher/parent replaced with a lemur. Hell, why don't we have all SORTS of primates governing our destiny! Wait, we already do...

...?

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Wrong. AIDS research lacks funding, jackass. Stem cell research lacks FUNDING, jackass. Plus, the Bush Administration has been instrumental in allowing private companies to copyright findings of the Human Genome Mapping project, further securing the drug industry's capitalistic hold over true treatment for the sick. If money wasn't an issue, why are we even talking about this? Money is the ONLY issue to people like you and your ilk. Money=power.

And money can be withheld because of political issues (stem cell research being a good example). That's what I mean when I say the political will isn't there. It doesn't seem you understand what you are talking about. How old are you?

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

12-16-03 8:51am (new)
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MikeyG
Shoots the shit and often misses

Member Rated:

Word of advice: MAKE MORE SENSE. Again, HOW? Perhaps your reading comprehension skills are impaired. Tell me exactly how, in the long run, 74 billion dollars will come back to us. Nice avoidance.

Oooh? Jesus, you're naive. How old are YOU? Performing studies as to the socio-economic advantages of legalizing drugs doesn't cost anything? Publishing these studies? Presenting the findings? No, this is all free work. You really don't see that far beneath the surface of things, do you?

How is it NOT prolonging them? Hmm? How is 74 billion dollars, if given directly to AIDS research with which top-of-the-line equipment is purchased, the best scientists hired, etc. not an advancement? Wouldn't NOT giving this money stall it? Isn't it technically already stalled BECAUSE there is no money? What fucking planet are you from?

The political will IS there, buddy. You just can't see it. Unfortunately, the DOLLARS supercede it. Right now, the Repubs have all the moolah, and everyone knows it. The more money you have, the more powerful you are. That's why such creatures as lobbyists exist. There are companies and individuals that would like to see such things as cloning and stem cell research eliminated completely because their business would be hurt by it. Wouldn't 'donating' a shitload of their cash to a couple of influential Congressmen help insure this happens? Seriously, you must really have no idea of how the system works. Once more, since you avoided the question a looooong time ago, WHERE ARE YOU FROM? Didn't you say something about your screenname being Austrian?

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

12-16-03 9:57am (new)
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MaKK_BeNN
VOTE JEB BUSH 2008

Member Rated:

You can prosper in many forms.

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Oooh? Jesus, you're naive. How old are YOU? Performing studies as to the socio-economic advantages of legalizing drugs doesn't cost anything? Publishing these studies? Presenting the findings? No, this is all free work. You really don't see that far beneath the surface of things, do you?

What are you talking about? You were saying the Iraq funds could go elsewhere. It wouldn't cost 60 billion dollars to pass laws to legalize drugs. And then the drugs could be taxed. I don't think I need to write a thesis on that.

Well how is paying to have the Washington Monutment maintained NOT prolonging AIDS? Or keeping public museums open?

This sounds like a seperate issue all together. I don't remember anyone saying AIDS funding will be cut into to pay the Iraq war.

No, it's not.

This is why I asked how old you are, you have a very simplified view of politics.

If you don't like the way Congress is handling these issues then are ways to express this. Did you think maybe Congress, using their powers delegated to them by the people, save real money for real problems, like Iraq? Why is AIDS (which is very avoidable) so much more of a threat then Iraq in the first place?

In any event, as I said before, it's not like we're suddenly de-funding AIDs research, or stem-cell studies, or whatever it is you have your panties in a bunch about. And us suddenly coming up with money for Iraq shows that it IS about political will, and not about cartoonish rich old men sitting on bags of money.

I do live in America. It sounds like you either don't, or do and have at best a 6th grade understanding of politics.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

12-16-03 10:19am (new)
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boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

On balance, no. Please see my correspondence with Dougan, just above.

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What others say about boorite!

12-16-03 12:07pm (new)
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MikeyG
Shoots the shit and often misses

Member Rated:

MaKK, I have a great understanding of politics. I also value human life. You, apparently, have neither. Maybe you can better understand what I mean through Eisenhower:

"Every gun that is made. every warship that is launched, every rocket fires signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

Getting it yet? Getting a sense of what I mean? Maybe you've just decided that pure idiocy and incomprehensive thinking is the best way to live your life. You REALLY, MaKK, NEVER make a point. EVER. We're not suddenly de-funding AIDS research. In a very real sense, we always have been. AIDS is very avoidable? Not nearly as avoidable as IRAQ. MaKK, the only thing I can hope for is for someone very close to you to die of AIDS. Then your lassez-faire attitude will change, guaranteed. Harsh? Maybe. Maybe you need it.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

12-16-03 1:19pm (new)
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MikeyG
Shoots the shit and often misses

Member Rated:

The full quote:

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron."

- Dwight D. Eisenhower, April 16, 1953...

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

12-16-03 1:24pm (new)
quote : comics : pm : info


boorite
crazy knife lady

Member Rated:

Sometimes Eisenhower really impresses me. I wanted Colin Powell to be the next Eisenhower. Ah well.

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What others say about boorite!

12-16-03 1:39pm (new)
quote : comics : pm : info

Stripcreator » Fights Go Here » Did someone mention politics?


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