Why, because I want America to be safe, and the Middle East to not be in turmoil, and Iraq to have free-determination? I don't really understand what you are basing the claim that I have no value of human life on.

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Maybe you can better understand what I mean through Eisenhower:

"Every gun that is made. every warship that is launched, every rocket fires signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

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Are you still spouting nonsense Mak? Good for you.

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"Jelly-belly gigglin, dancin and a-wigglin, honey that's the way I am!" Janice the Muppet

Am I still chucking up "interesting" reading? Good for me!

Why "reputable" news outlets suck dick.

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"Jelly-belly gigglin, dancin and a-wigglin, honey that's the way I am!" Janice the Muppet

If by "nonsense" you mean "beliefs that conflict with my own assumptions of self-righteousness" then yes.

Your story is a fine illustration of the fact that you have to go to New Zeland to find a media outlet with so little common sense that they would believe a few individuals would conspire a plot against American lives, risking their political careers and even their very freedom, so that a large corporation would receive a few contracts.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

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Your story is a fine illustration of the fact that you have to go to New Zeland to find a media outlet with so little common sense that they would believe a few individuals would conspire a plot against American lives, risking their political careers and even their very freedom, so that a large corporation would receive a few contracts.

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Hey, MaKK, all you do is say, "I don't see..." and use it as a blanket statement. You have argued far more than just advocating a regime change. Everyone here knew there was a need IN IRAQ for a regime change. Exactly how many people are starving in America? I am more than happy to find that number for you.

Starvation rates in America

Risk a political career? People have risked political careers over far less. For someone who advocates the fact that Saddam Hussein was an evil, evil man, you are sure loathe to accept evil in the people you look up to. It's there, mAAk.

Anybody else watch the Bush interview with Diane Sawyer last night?

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

Well i can see that, I'm starving right now. Perhaps I should go get something to eat.

Once again from...the land of New Zeland..interesting...

I believe that the simplest explanation is usually the truth. That 9-11 was an elaborate plot to advance a corporation is a little too outlandish for me. If they had all the power neccessary for such a plot, it seems they wouldn't need the 9-11 plot to gain power.

I'm sorry I'm loathe to become insane and believe anything I read because I so desperately dislike the administration.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

I can't think of a much better example of laissez-faire than saying that it's up to Iraqis to sort out their own dictator.

That Eisenhower quote could be apply to any financial expenditure on frivolous causes. Have you ever gone to a restaurant? For shame! You should have given that money to the poor!

Exactly. MikeyG is less making arguments than he is making non-sequiturs.

His "article" is just two headlines. "There are homeless in the U.S." "The U.S. is spending billions overseas." It's actually kind of hilarious, from a journalistic point of view, to say that this is a "news story".

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

Aaaah. Here's one of the places you're wrong. How is it laissez-faire to worry about domestic issues before unecessary foreign ones? How, exactly, is it lassez-faire, to want people to stop dying in THIS country before we worry about people dying in OTHER ones? Hmm? We're not much of an example to other countries if our people are killing themselves and each other on the street. Illegitimate crack babies are being born, people are addicted, and you think my attitude is laissez-faire.

No, my attitude is we shouldn't have stuck our fat fucking American noses into the goddamn country in THE FIRST PLACE, years and years ago, backing Hussein from the goddamn get-go. Should we ignore them and let them sort it out? I am not saying that, either.

I am saying we should fucking apologize to the Iraqi people for fucking their country up in the first place and then fucking it up even more. Then maybe we should poll the whole goddamn country and ask them what THEY WANT. M'kay? Good. Now let's move on.

Hmmm...We are talking about now over 80 billion dollars. Have YOU spent 80 billion dollars on food? Furthermore, were you elected to delegate OTHER PEOPLE'S money? Do you ask for loans to go to restaurants? I think you see where I am going. Your argument for this particular instance was extremely weak. Come up with something better.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

I think your argument is weak, MikeyG. People are killing each other in the streets? What fucking country are you talking about?

Everywhere has crime. It's not like we live in the wild west here.

So who should we be feeding? We have food stamps. Should we lower the requirement for that? You aren't really proposing any answers. You're just complaining about money spent for the war.

Also a good deal of homeless people are mentally ill. It doesn't really matter how much money you give them. What is your solution there? Some pan handlers make more than I do in a year.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

No. I mean your arguments are circular and pointless. As a liberal I tend to be open-minded to the views of others.

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"Jelly-belly gigglin, dancin and a-wigglin, honey that's the way I am!" Janice the Muppet

Well what else is left? Whatever it is, maybe we could try it in Uzbekistan.

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So if North Korea bombs Seoul and excuses it by saying America did the same to Iraq, the international community will just stand aside and let them get on with it? I doubt this. Why would the US's lawless behaviour make it more acceptable for other states to follow suit?

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Why wouldn't it? South Korea certainly poses a threat to North Korea, and is certainly hostile, and is backed by a superpower (the superpower) who has shown no qualms about using force unlawfully, and has even threatened to use nuclear weapons. Note that North Korea has responded by accelerating its nuclear weapons program amid much saber-rattling. This, they reason, is the only thing that can deter a US attack-- and who can say they're wrong, after this Iraq invasion?

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This assertion was disproven by your priceless suggestion that we educate Saddam to be not such a nasty man.

I'm open to ideas. I'm just sticking to my guns on my stance on Iraq. That's not a circular argument.

Are you open-minded to my stance on Iraq? I'm not really sure what your stance is, other than you believe in a Bush / 9-11 conspiracy and you want auditing of electronic voting systems (which I agree is a good idea).

I think "as a liberal" you are "open-minded" to "what is currently trendy in liberal schools of thought" and "rigidly conform to their ideologies and public opinions regarding what is the political non-issue de jour". But that's just me.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

No, that's what the media is trying to make liberal mean. The word has a definition. Calling people that act the way you said liberal is like calling bush conservative. The man is waaaay to far off-beam to be conservative.

True, I don't bother typing out my thoughts here as much as I find interesting articles that don't get enough air time. I tend to have only a small group of face-to-face folks I'll get into those discussions with - people I would die for. Maybe I'm too old to open up that far with people I haven't broken bread with. That could be one area I'm close-minded in. We all have our weaknesses.

About a third of my face-to-face friends are republicans, but they have open minds and hearts (As do, I believe, some folks I disagree with on this site). A large part of the republican friends I see face-to-face think the war had good reasons but admit that bush doesn't have a clew as to what they are. I wish the bush cartel would give back the GOP to them.

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"Jelly-belly gigglin, dancin and a-wigglin, honey that's the way I am!" Janice the Muppet

If someone had said "let's go and stop the Taliban from oppressing Afghanistan (as some liberal groups were screaming we do) pre 9-11 and even pre-Osama, I would have been for that war. Iraq was an even more desperate situation, for many reasons, but a big one was the regime's wealth and ability to build a strong military and weapons reserve. That only thing I think is sad is that it took us getting attacked for this to happen.

I think Bush didn't phrase the context for going to war well. I, however, agree with the war. This is independent of my politcal party alignment. In fact I'm sure this is a mixed issue across political lines.

I do truly wonder if most liberals problem with the war is that it is happening under an evil corporate republican's watch. I'm not accusing you of this kind of thinking, but I'd like to hear your take on this.

In all honesty, if Gore were in office and were doing the same thing, would you really feel the same way?

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

Well, Gore was not my choice, either. I think you're confusing liberal with Democrat. You act like there really are only two choices: Republican or Democrat. They both have their weak points, and I am no fan of Clinton, and definitely no fan of Gore. Gore is a wishy-washy, flip-flopping fence-sitter.

As for people killing each other on the streets, you perhaps live in a different country, or are far too removed from the urban areas of this country. You, my dear mAAk, really live a sheltered existence, this much is absolutely true. Rocket science is not a necessary tool in the gleaning of this. I have SEEN people get murdered. True, there will always be crime, but why do we have so many shooting deaths? You really need a wake-up call, mAAk. Your humanitarian side is pleading for aid and succor.

You know what? I think I'll stick to arguing with andy dougan. You not only have nothing to back up your opinions, but you still refuse to reference any place you get your information from. Say what you will, mAAk, but you're not only ignorant, you're stubborn as well. Quite a dangerous combination.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

If you're voting for president you do only have two choices. Again I wonder what country you really live in.

Ok maybe you can tell him you wish his family would die of AIDS and that you are tired of seeing people being murdered left and right, right in front of you, now that it is clear I am totally unimpressed with your attempts at inflammatory speech.

If you owned a gun and cared maybe you could have stopped all those people from being murdered right in front of you.

Anyway your argument was "we have so much anarchy in the streets we have no business in Iraq, not "we have too many shooting deaths".

For the thousandth time, if you want me to reference a piece of information, just ask. Otherwise I have no idea to what you are referring. I know some of the places YOU get your information now, and it's nothing to be proud of.

Fun fact of the day: If you see someone get murdered in a movie, you really haven't seen someone get murdered. Movies are just make-believe.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

Never once did I mention the word 'anarchy'. I believe I said people were getting murdered in the streets. My argument had nothing to do with Anarchy or Anarchism and you apparently know nothing about either or you wouldn't have brought it up.

You are far too indoctrinated to be taken even remotely seriously. Now you are advocating the use of guns. You're INSANE, mAAk, and once again, you are living a sheltered life. Am I wrong? Are you or are you not in an urban area?

mAAk, let me make it easy for you. EVERY PIECE OF INFORMATION you talk about, provide a reference. Not any specific thing, buddy. EVERYTHING. It's about time the burden of proof fell on you.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

My arguments on Iraq were pretty straight forward, that's why I'm asking what points you want me to reference.

Are you still traumatized from the R rated movie you saw where someone got shot? It's ok, calm down, it's only make-believe.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

*sigh*

mAAk, ONCE MORE, because this DOES have a bearing on the discussion, are you in an urban area?

Here's what you need to prove:
A reason Saddam was dangerous to the American people.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

Anything I said about Saddam you can find in any biographical article about him. If I said something unusually specific you want me to back up I will, but I don't think I offered any rare piece of information about him.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

You never SAID anything specific, so how is it that I would have to ask you to prove something specific? You've always kept things nice and vague.

ONCE MORE, What kind of area did you grow up in? Are you fucking Amish or something?

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.