Actually, you are pretty much right in this case. They don't advocate the stoning of a rape victim. A virgin promised to a man who has sex with another man, yes. But not a rape victim. No, for her if the man is caught during the rape act, he is made to pay the FATHER and then marry the rape victim. Here's the relevant scripture:

quote:

---

[color=red]Deuteronomy 22:23 If a virgin is engaged to a man and another man meets her in the city and has sexual relations with her, Deuteronomy 22:24 you must bring the two of them to the gate of that city and stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry out though in the city and the man because he violated his neighbor’s fiancée; in this way you will purge evil from among you. Deuteronomy 22:25 But if the man came across the engaged woman in the field and overpowered her and raped her, then only the rapist must die. Deuteronomy 22:26 You must not do anything to the young woman—she has done nothing deserving of death. This case is the same as when someone attacks another person and murders him, Deuteronomy 22:27 for the man met her in the field and the engaged woman cried out, but there was no one to rescue her.

Deuteronomy 22:28 Suppose a man comes across a virgin who is not engaged and overpowers and rapes48 her and they are discovered. Deuteronomy 22:29 The man who has raped her must pay her father fifty shekels of silver and she must become his wife because he has violated her; he may never divorce her as long as he lives.[/color]

---

That's funny, your opinion is not present in the implementation of our foreign policy.

You understand there is a genocide going on in the Sudan. Why isn't America there? Why aren't other nations intervening? Military actions don't have ethical objectives, or if they do, it's a form of ethical triage.

If you really do think America should go to war or cut off funding everytime a crime is committed in a country, you really do have some maturing to do.

Because at that point we were concerned about Saddam being a military threat. Being well armed at that point is a big problem.

Mikey, Christians aren't trying to stone people to death or set up law systems based on passages in Dueteronomy. As Dougan points out, some Muslims are trying to set up legal systems based on archaic texts. This is the problems, not the existence of such texts in religious works themsevles. You are completely missing the point.

And Islamic faith is largely based on the Old Testiment, as is Christianity. Pointing to a passage in the old Testiment isn't specifically "attacking" one religion.

Do you understand the concept that Sharia Law is still practiced?

I didn't say all Muslims are terrible. I said I don't care how many Muslims support Sharia Law, their "public opinion" doesn't change the fact I know they are dead wrong.

I just used Muslims as an example. Try to pay attention.

I do know this though.

America isn't stoning women to death.

America isn't oppressing women.

America isn't advocating suicide bombings.

America isn't advocating targetting women, children, or rescue workers.

America has freedom of religion.

America does not advocate or tolerate violent protests.

America treats all of its citizens equally regardless of race color or creed.

I don't care how many people are opposed to the American way of life.

---
Vote Jeb Bush 2008

I disagree. Not as harshly, say, as Afghanistan. But women are oppressed.

No, just homocide bombings.

That's funny. We keep hitting a lot of them.

Right, and the government has freedom of religiously motivated political decisionmaking.

Right, by setting blockades staffed with S.W.A.T. teams, National Guardsmen, and major police presence around the protests. Oh, and they also make sure people stay really, really far away from the thing they are protesting.

It does? Like unlawful detention of minorities? Like the way minority voters in Florida found felonies on their records, revoking their right to vote, dated 2007? Or do you want to talk about Affirmative Action? Like, how Affirmative Action has statistically benefitted white women most of all? Or the harsh debate over whether or not descendants of slaves deserve reparations? Wait, you've probably got tons of invalid answers to all those valid questions. Save it.

You don't even have a clue what that means, you patriot-pretender. Oh, how your little rallying cries bring a tear to my bleeding-heart-liberal eyes.

---
The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

I wonder that myself, and I'm not alone. Those questions are being asked across the political spectrum.

quote:

---

Military actions don't have ethical objectives, or if they do, it's a form of ethical triage.

If you really do think America should go to war or cut off funding everytime a crime is committed in a country, you really do have some maturing to do.

---

I disagree. Not as harshly, say, as Afghanistan. But women are oppressed.

Oh really? Please explain how.

No, just homocide bombings.

Don't bring the homos into this.

That's funny. We keep hitting a lot of them.

We do not target them. Get real Mikey. I ask in all seriousness: why do you hate your country so much?

Right, and the government has freedom of religiously motivated political decisionmaking.

There is a seperation of religion and government. You cannot hope for more.

Right, by setting blockades staffed with S.W.A.T. teams, National Guardsmen, and major police presence around the protests. Oh, and they also make sure people stay really, really far away from the thing they are protesting.

So now you're for violent protests?

It does? Like unlawful detention of minorities?

What instances of this have been exposed that have not been corrected by the judicial or legislative systems?

You've been watching too many X files Mikey.

Are you for getting rid of affirmative action now? But wait I thought we oppressed women. Now they don't desrve a leg up?

They fucking don't deserve them.

You don't even have a clue what that means, you patriot-pretender. Oh, how your little rallying cries bring a tear to my bleeding-heart-liberal eyes.

You are what I mean by that.

dougan:

I wonder that myself, and I'm not alone. Those questions are being asked across the political spectrum.

Because we don't have the man power or logistics to go in there. France is sitting right next door though. They could build a coalition with say Germany and other high and mighty nations. Why don't they go in?

I, like you, ask myself these questions.

It was still an internal matter versus an external one.

Yeah we don't seem to be allowed to be honest about this around certain peers. Thanks for indulging my other slightly more inflammatory observations as well.

---
Vote Jeb Bush 2008

...wait...who DID mention politics?

---
It's not the crack, it's the 'caine.

A heartwarming story of women achieving equality... by pita 7-22-02

This is truly marvelous! The last time I came to Kabul for an interview, women were required to walk ten feet behind their husband at all times! Now, I see, the men are walking several yards behind their wives. Can you tell the free world just what enabled Afghani women to achieve such a reversal of roles? Land mines.

---
“It is only with the heart that one sees rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.” - The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1945)

LOL, Pita. Best land-mine themed comic I've seen all day.

---
I was gonna send a robot back in time, but I got high.

:D
Thanks

---
“It is only with the heart that one sees rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.” - The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1945)

OWNED!!!!!!!!!!

---
Vote Jeb Bush 2008

Ever wonder how the Party of Lincoln and Liberty transmogrified into the party of Newt Gingrich's evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch president, a dull and rigid man, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk? Well, here's how!

You're just mad that in November the Democrats are going to be

OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---
Vote Jeb Bush 2008

What a dick.

Oh, I don't know. Just the fact that women's wages are still at something like 76% of men's. Or that you open a men's magazine like Maxim and are bombarded with pictures of beautiful women in scant clothing, and when you open a women's magazine like Cosmopolitan, Vogue, etc., you see the same thing?

Ha ha ha. ha ha. I am so amused because your joke is really funny. You are truly a comedy genius, and very quick on the uptake.

We don't? But didn't we just bomb the shit out of a settlement, killing women and children, because it is a suspected terrorist meetingplace? Of terrorists suspected of having LINKS to Al-Qaeda?

Didn't a bunch of soldiers admit receiving orders to burn villages in Vietnam? Oh, wait. That's because our enemies are cowardly and hide behind families.

Right. So no politicians are one is sworn in on the Bible, we do not swear to tell "The Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But the Truth, so HELP ME GOD" on the Bible in Court, and it is not mandatory anywhere in America for children to say "I pledge Allegiance, UNDER GOD, to the United States of America". Isn't God generally associated with religion?

Am I? Those protests certainly look like they could get violent with all those big ol' guns swingin' around.

See below:

Also, the ongoing Guantanamo Bay prison fiasco.

I am not sure what they "desrve", but white women, who are still oppressed, are far less oppressed than minority women. Especially since affirmative action has benefited whitey's girl the most.

So you don't think the fact that the black man had to live in America against his will for a hundred years in constant fear of their lives shouldn't matter?

Anyway, about the Muslims, I will not deny that in this era that the Muslims rival the Crusades-era Christians. And dougan's point about how religious-inspired brutality seems to be more rampant in Muslims is just that. That certainly doesn't include all Muslims, which is exactly what was implied by your statements, Freedom-hater.

---
The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

Did you know that takes into account the fact that, oh I don't know, more women tend to take time off to have and take care of children than men?

Also is that an American law? Does the law say that women must make 78% of what men make? Give me a break! Everyone is free to make their own choice as long as they don't disciminate.

Because there are magazines with beautiful women in them, women are oppressed in America? I'm sure the women in those magazines make more money than 90% of men in America. Talk about oppression.

Would you be happier if the women had to wear burkas, and you could eat them if they tempted you with ankle flesh, Swami?

Ha ha ha. ha ha. I am so amused because your joke is really funny. You are truly a comedy genius, and very quick on the uptake.

Oh, did you want to seriously talk about "homocide"? In all fairness I don't think that's a real word. But ok, I'm all ears. ( Just don't stick a cock in one of my ears! ;) )

We don't?

No we don't. And now we have all learned something.

And in shrines. And here we are again talking about Vietnam. Hey, maybe Kerry followed his orders to kill families, but following orders has never been an excuse.

Right. So no politicians are one is sworn in on the Bible, we do not swear to tell "The Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But the Truth, so HELP ME GOD" on the Bible in Court,

Wow, you're right, what more stunning evidence of oppression could I ask for?

No, it's not mandatory, you're right. At least learn the facts of your pointless gripes before you make yourself a fool with them.

Am I? Those protests certainly look like they could get violent with all those big ol' guns swingin' around.

I said we don't allow violent protests, and you started bitching about our methods for preventing violent protests. Still a little sore subject with you? "Hey hey, ho ho, protecting the right to free assembly has got to go!"

Also, the ongoing Guantanamo Bay prison fiasco.

Those aren't Americans you fool.

I am not sure what they "desrve", but white women, who are still oppressed, are far less oppressed than minority women. Especially since affirmative action has benefited whitey's girl the most.

I think you have no grasp of what you are talking about. You still haven't answered my question. Should affirmative action be done away with? How would you fix it, if not?

So you don't think the fact that the black man had to live in America against his will for a hundred years in constant fear of their lives shouldn't matter?

White people were also endentured servants. Not all blacks in America were slaves. How are you going to sort that out? Should the Jews get reparation from Egypt?

No, you started to spout verses from the Bible to somehow prove Christian communities were just as bad. Christians aren't roaming the cities of the Sudan, butchering non-Christians to set up an autocratic fundamentalist Christian government. The fundamentalists Muslims are committing genocide to do that though. Pointing to verses in the Bible that no one practices anymore is just silly, it doesn't hold any bearing on these real pressing issues. There are countless other places Sharia Law is set up or trying to be enforced.

Please contrast this with America. Please ask me again why I stand firmly against our enemies.

You condemn us for women making on average less than a man because women decide to have children. You condemn us for not redistributing our income based on a completely racist basis. You condemn us for our strengths and virtues. You run to protect genocidal and fascist fundamentalists Muslims.

---
Vote Jeb Bush 2008

Dear Mr. Bush,

I know you and I have had our differences in the past, and I realize I am the one who started this whole mess about "who did what" during Vietnam when I brought up that "deserter" nonsense back in January. But I have to hand it to you on what you have uncovered about John Kerry and his record in Vietnam. Kerry has tried to pass himself off as a war hero, but thanks to you and your friends, we now know the truth.

First of all, thank you for pointing out to all of us that Mr. Kerry was never struck by a BULLET. It was only SHRAPNEL that entered his body! I did not know that! Hell, what's the big deal about a bunch of large, sharp, metal shards ripping open your flesh? That happens to all of us! In my opinion, if you want a purple heart, you'd better be hit with a bullet -- with your name on it!

Secondly, thank you for sending Bob Dole out there and letting us know that Mr. Kerry, though wounded three times, actually "never spilled blood." When you are in the debates with Kerry, turn to him and say, "Dammit, Mr. Kerry, next time you want a purple heart, you better spill some American red blood! And I don't mean a few specks like those on O.J.'s socks -- we want to see a good pint or two of blood for each medal. In fact, I would have preferred that you had bled profusely, a big geyser of blood spewing out of your neck or something!" Then throw this one at him: "Senator Kerry, over 58,000 brave Americans gave their lives in Vietnam -- but YOU didn't. You only got WOUNDED! What do you have to say for yourself???" Lay that one on him and he won't know what to do.

And thanks, also, Mr. Bush, for exposing the fact that Mr. Kerry might have actually WOUNDED HIMSELF in order to get those shiny medals. Of course he did! How could the Viet Cong have hit him -- he was on a SWIFT boat! He was going too fast to be hit by enemy fire. He tried to blow himself up three different times just so he could go home and run for president someday. It's all so easy to see, now, what he was up to.

What would we do without you, Mr. Bush? Criticize you as we might, when it comes to pointing out other men's military records, there is no one who can touch your prowess. In 2000, you let out the rumor that your opponent John McCain might be "nuts" from the 5 years he spent in a POW camp. Then, in the 2002 elections, your team compared triple-amputee Sen. Max Cleland to Osama bin Laden, and that cost him the election. And now you are having the same impact on war hero John Kerry. Since you (oops, I mean "The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth!") started running those ads, Kerry's polls numbers have dropped (with veterans, he has lost 18 points in the last few weeks).

Some people have said "Who are you, Mr. Bush, to attack these brave men considering you yourself have never seen combat -- in fact, you actively sought to avoid it." What your critics fail to understand is that even though your dad got you into a unit that would never be sent to Vietnam -- and even though you didn't show up for Guard duty for at least a year -- at least you were still IN FAVOR of the Vietnam War! Cowards like Clinton felt it was more important to be consistent (he opposed the war, thus he refused to go) than to be patriotic and two-faced.

The reason that I think you know so much about other men's war wounds is because, during your time you in the Texas Air National Guard, you suffered so many of them yourself. Consider the paper cut you received on September 22, 1972, while stationed in Alabama, working on a Senate campaign for your dad's friend (when you were supposed to be on the Guard base). A campaign brochure appeared from nowhere, ambushing your right index finger, and blood trickled out onto your brand new argyle sweater.

Then there was the incident with the Crazy Glue when your fraternity brothers visited you one weekend at the base and glued your lips together while you were "passed out." Though initially considered "friendly fire," it was later ruled that you suffered severe post traumatic stress disorder from the assault and required certain medicinal attention -- which, it seems, was provided by those same fraternity brethren.

But nothing matched your heroism when, on July 2, 1969, you sustained a massive head injury when enemy combatants from another Guard unit dropped a keg of Coors on your head during a reconnaissance mission at a nearby all-girls college. Fortunately, the cool, smooth fluids that poured out of the keg were exactly what was needed to revive you.

That you never got a purple heart for any of these incidents is a shame. I can fully appreciate your anger at Senator Kerry for the three he received. I mean, Kerry was a man of privilege, he could have gotten out just like you. Instead, he thinks he's going to gain points with the American people bragging about how he was getting shot at every day in the Mekong Delta. Ha! Is that the best he can do? Hell, I hear gunfire every night outside my apartment window! If he thinks he is going to impress anyone with the fact that he volunteered to go when he could have spent the Vietnam years on the family yacht, he should think again. That only shows how stupid he was! True-blue Americans want a president who knows how to pull strings and work the system and get away with doing as little work as possible!

So, to make it up to you, I have written some new ads you can use on TV. People will soon tire of the swift boat veterans and you are going to need some fresh, punchier material. Feel free to use any of these:

ANNOUNCER: "When the bullets were flying all around him in Vietnam, what did John Kerry do? He said he leaned over the boat and 'pulled a man out of the river.' But, as we all know, men don't live in the river -- fish do. John Kerry knows how to tell a big fish tale. What he won't tell you is that when the enemy was shooting at him, he ducked. Do you want a president who will duck? Vote Bush."

ANNOUNCER: "Mr. Kerry's biggest supporter, Sen. Max Cleland, claims to have lost two legs and an arm in Vietnam. But he still has one arm! How did that happen? One word: Cowardice. When duty called, he was unwilling to give his last limb. Is that the type of selfishness you want hanging out in the White House? We think not. Vote for the man who would be willing to give America his right frontal lobe. Vote Bush."

Hope these help, Mr. Bush. And remember, when the American death toll in Iraq hits 1,000 during the Republican convention, be sure to question whether those who died really did indeed "die" -- or were they just trying to get their face on CNN's nightly tribute to fallen heroes? The sixteen who've died so far this week were probably working hand in hand with the Kerry campaign to ruin your good time in New York. Stay consistent, sir, and always, ALWAYS question the veracity of anyone who risks their life for this country. It's the least they deserve.

Yours,
Michael Moore

---
"Jelly-belly gigglin, dancin and a-wigglin, honey that's the way I am!" Janice the Muppet

Rummy and Bush knew about abuse 2 years ago. That makes them accomplices to war crimes.

"Fucking crazies!" finally some honest talk out of the Bush Cartel.

G.W. Bush not eligible for the Florida Ballet? That would rock.

---
"Jelly-belly gigglin, dancin and a-wigglin, honey that's the way I am!" Janice the Muppet

Bush never said those things about Kerry. The blessed Veterans for Truth did. Bush said he honored Kerry's service.

Do your sig pics mean you like mouth-breathers?

---
Vote Jeb Bush 2008

Everytime Spankling adds a new face to his sig I ejaculate.

---
Get Your War On

HA! Really? So you're saying that because a woman has to care for her children she deserves lower wages? What did you mean by that?

Wait, so you are saying that someone can walk into whatever place they want and get whatever job they are qualified for? Across the board? What about discrimination against black farmers? Do you even know what the U.S. Department of Agriculture is doing?

So wait, three percent of women make more than 90% of men? What is it exactly you are trying to do with that nonsensical statistic? Do you really think that the women in those magazines make up a large portion of the female population?

Right, women look really hot in burqas. You're a complete idiot.

I'll defer to you for that:

I am not sure anyone desrves to be disciminated against.

Yes, which is that you really, really don't think about anything you hear, see, or read.

Hasn't it? I could have sworn there have been quite a few examples of people like Oliver North and G. Gordon Liddy using it as one.

Gee, maybe not forcing kids in Public Schools to acknowledge their allegiance to God, especially when they may not be able to grasp the concept of what they are doing, must be totally and completely moral.

So what constitutes mandatory? If it's written in school charter, is that not mandatory? You're a fucking total and complete moron, and here is the proof.

My point is that there is a pretty great assumption that a protest will become violent by the powers-that-be, and it is not on a circumstantial basis.

I never said the minorites we illegally hold are American, you blank sheet of Republican letterhead.

I will not answer the question because it is not in context with this discussion. Instead of starting with white women and working our way "down", we should start with minorites and work our way UP to helping the white women, since although white women are oppressed in comparison to white men, they are far less oppressed than minorities of any gender.

Why? Are there tons of Jews still in Egypt? From all the information I can find, there are but a few hundred. Maybe they should get reparations. And let's talk about the "white" indentured servants. Who were they indentured to? Certainly not black people. To other white people, maybe? BINGO! As a race, they certainly did not suffer as the blacks did, and the MAJOR, MAJOR majority of blacks in America at the time of slavery were slaves.

Actually, I was comparing religious beliefs to show you that the Muslims of now that you speak about are not too far off from the Jews and Christians of the past. And not all of the Muslims are of this ilk. What is your solution? A Muslim Holocaust to "teach them a lesson"?

quote:

---

Please contrast this with America. Please ask me again why I stand firmly against our enemies.

You condemn us for women making on average less than a man because women decide to have children. You condemn us for not redistributing our income based on a completely racist basis. You condemn us for our strengths and virtues. You run to protect genocidal and fascist fundamentalists Muslims.

---

HA! Really? So you're saying that because a woman has to care for her children she deserves lower wages? What did you mean by that?

The lower wage figure comes from her taking voluntary time off from work in addition to the time it takes to give birth, which is called "maternity leave". If a father left work to raise a child he also would not get paid to not show up to work.

Do you ever just say the word "duh"? Are you ever walking down the street and find yourself uttering "DUHHH" like a fog horn?

Wait, so you are saying that someone can walk into whatever place they want and get whatever job they are qualified for?

No actually Affirmitive Action keeps whites from getting jobs. You're right.

So wait, three percent of women make more than 90% of men? What is it exactly you are trying to do with that nonsensical statistic? Do you really think that the women in those magazines make up a large portion of the female population?

Do you really want to take away their rights to be in those magazines? Does seeing beautiful women send you into a rage? Maybe you need to be chemically castrated. ;)

So you are against Affirmative Action? Is that what you're saying? Because I might agree with you. You are turning into a proud noble Republican, Mikey. ;)

Hasn't it? I could have sworn there have been quite a few examples of people like Oliver North and G. Gordon Liddy using it as one.

It's not a valid excuse.

Mikey, you are wrong. The pledge of allegience isn't mandatory. It is also a far cry from religious oppression. You'd better throw away your money Mikey, since "In God we Trust" no doubt oppresses the pants off you. ;)

So what constitutes mandatory?

Being forced to say it and given no other option.

My point is that there is a pretty great assumption that a protest will become violent by the powers-that-be, and it is not on a circumstantial basis.

"Hey hey, ho ho, law and order has got to go!"

quote:

---

quote:

---

Those aren't Americans you fool.

---

I never said the minorites we illegally hold are American, you blank sheet of Republican letterhead.

---

Right, this is why I stayed away from this forum. You reduce your own arguments down to nothing but distractionary flotsam.

It was fun while it lasted.

---
The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

Your basis for arguing for slavery reparations was flagrantly racist:

Whites must pay blacks because at one point in time some whites were slave owners of blacks (and also owners of indentured servants.

Some whites were against slavery. Some whites were not slave owners. Some whites did not move to America until after slavery was done away with. Some blacks were not slaves. Some blacks were freed before the Civil War. Some blacks have more opportunity in Amerca then they would have had being a slave (that's right, there were African slave traders) in Africa.

Nevertheless, you say "whites must pay blacks". And also that the inherited plight of the descendents of white indentured servants basically doesn't matter because they aren't black. That is racist. 100% racist. Explain to me how it isn't. You can't. That's why you're not arguing back.

Maybe you're also biased against Americans, that would explain your other irrational conclusions. You're biased, racist, and apparently sexist since you don't think women should be allowed to show their flesh in public, or be allowed to take time off to raise children.

---
Vote Jeb Bush 2008

MikeyG, you just got

OWWWNNNEEDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---
Vote Jeb Bush 2008

OWNED!!!!