If you believe in that stuff you would read that after that he supposedly did go to hell before coming back.

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But man's punishment was to spend eternity in Hell. If Jesus doesn't do that, he hasn't suffered enough to redeem us.

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Okay...lemmie splain it for you in the way I understand it.

Sins can only be cleansed by blood. It wasn't just the suffering. "The wages of sin is death." It was the fact that someone who DIDN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING WRONG in the eyes of God (Jesus, the son of God) DIED in a very painful and bloody manner. "Only by blood can sins be redeemed." He only had to die the death that the rest of us deserved. No one could have paid that price because we're all blind, deaf, and incredibly stupid.

Originally, in the Law, they sacrificed "perfect and blemishless" animals in atonement. Ones that were not "blind" or "deaf" or "lame". It was a foreshadowing of the things to come.

And it applies to ANYTHING you do that is evil. Lying to your 3rd grade teacher about your dog eating your homework, kicking your little brother, secretly coveting your next door neighbor's car, etc. God couldn't stand watching us hurt ourselves and acting in ways that we were never meant to act. Without that blood spilling upon that cross, he wouldn't even be able to look at us. It was a way for us to get back to Him. Otherwise, we would be in eternal separation from God (A.K.A. Hell).

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I will rate you hard, and unendingly.

quote:

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Then don't watch it.

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Wasn't planning on it. I personally don't enjoy explicit violence, and choose not to see those movies. But that doesn't stop me from wondering why anyone would find something inherently unpleasant to be entertaining.

Kind of like scary movies. Some people enjoy it. That's the worst thing for me. Waiting, waiting, waiting until something JUMPS out at you. I don't find that fun at all, but some people do.

On the other hand, I really enjoy roller coasters, so it's not being scared per se.

I'm annoyed at a movie rating system that gives a movie with graphic violence and "R" rating, while giving movies with "sexual situations" the same rating. Makes it difficult to figure out what is "safe" to see.

I'd like to see a movie rating system where the level of violence and sex is on a 10-point scale, something like:

R (V:5 S:9)

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...Trot and Cap'n Bill were free from anxiety and care. Button-Bright never worried about anything. The Scarecrow, not being able to sleep, looked out of the window and tried to count the stars.

Lying to teachers and being jealous of a car is evil? Surely that's a bit harsh, and devalues the word.

This comic expresses my feelings on the above :

[Click to view comic: 'God Smites the Oscar Crowd']

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Think classy, you'll be classy.

[Click to view comic: 'Passion Of The Christ is a bad movie']

Then don't watch it.

I didn't "roll my eyes" when Shindler's List came out.

I don't see how people saying the Holocaust never happened relates to the movie.

Or are you saying Judiasm is the only important religion?

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MaaK, I understand you feel defensive, but understand that I have reason to feel even MORE so. I'm not even fucking Jewish, as its just as silly as Christianity (Technically less silly, but only because there is less stuff to believe in.) However, I get a little scared when a movie about some guy getting tortured makes people send hate mail to the Synagogue where my mother works. I also get scared when churches ENCOURAGE children under 17 to see a movie all about VIOLENCE and HATE. Don't see it? I haven't. Do I want to ban it? No. Do I think Judaism is better than any other religion? Maybe, just because the holidays focus on being drunk with your family (there are rules that you have to be a certain level of drunk at certain parts of the festival), but I'm definitely not a "believer."

Why did I mention the holocaust? Because people that went through that had to go through a lot more than 3 days of extreme pain. That doesn't mean there can't be any other movies about someone suffering pain, but using that suffering as a context for empowering a myth is silly, IMO.

And Schindler's List? That movie didn't focus on the physical pain. It focused somewhat on the emotional pain of the Jews, but the ones in the movie had a pretty easy time of it compared to their friends at Auschwitz. It was about a person disconnected from fellow human beings, but slowly regaining the connection by helping them in the smallest ways. Schindlers list intended to celebrate the goodness in people. I don't think it really was a force to be reckoned with in the churches of America, and it even showed how Nazis were human beings.

I enjoy a lot of Jesus movies, including Superstar and even a miniseries I saw on CBS. He sounds like a great guy. andydougan's point is great, but even more than that: we're told God is mysterious because we can't possibly comprehend it, so therefore things he does will not make sense. That's just annoying to hear. A message of love does not fall on deaf ears, but a message that I'm not capable of really feeling love without being punished (unless I believe that some dude had more love than me) isn't fun. I want to be better than just asking for forgiveness, and this kind of philosophy doens't give me much room to swim.

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Sex Piano.

Remember: My mom's synagogue is getting a ton of hatemail, and respected members of our community just started asking why we need "more than one temple" for the Jews, seeing as there aren't too many of us. I'm kind of seeing this movie as an anti-Semitism party, so that may explain some of my defensiveness.

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Sex Piano.

The acts committed against the Jews, the Native Americans, and any other slaughtered people far outwigh this. And just about ALL of these people died for their beliefs. We celebrate one guy because he suffered and died for his. The Jews in WW2 Germany and Poland...what happened to them, which I could repeat here, was abominable. I wish I could translate the pure, unadulterated, mind-numbing fear these people had to live in for far longer than three days. But I won't repeat the acts of evil perpetrated aginst them. Let's just say that the Nazi-occupied territory became a case study in what happens without a checks & balances system. A powerful, intense group allowing their hate to run wild is some evil, evil shit.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't think the movie should have been denied the right to be made, released, or anything, but I can certainly choose not to pay nine fucking dollars to watch it. I'll choose to trust what I've managed to download of it and the opinions of my friends for now.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

quote:

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I'd like to see a movie rating system where the level of violence and sex is on a 10-point scale, something like:

R (V:5 S:9)

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That's a perty good idea. I'd personally like to see more explicit sex and less explicit violence on the big screen, and would like ratings designed to guide my path.

I'm always defensive of free speech.

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I'm not even fucking Jewish, as its just as silly as Christianity (Technically less silly, but only because there is less stuff to believe in.) However, I get a little scared when a movie about some guy getting tortured makes people send hate mail to the Synagogue where my mother works.

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Then your mom shouldn't have helped kill Jesus. Duh.

Ever think that hate mail is a back-lash from a campaign of anti-semetic claims about the movie? (Or maybe even part of the campaign itself?)

Bigots don't have the right to take away OTHER people's rights to free speech.

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I also get scared when churches ENCOURAGE children under 17 to see a movie all about VIOLENCE and HATE.

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If you're under 18 you have to see the movie with an adult. Also I don't think this movie will inspire too many schoolyard crucifictions.

quote:

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Don't see it? I haven't. Do I want to ban it? No. Do I think Judaism is better than any other religion? Maybe,

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Yeah that's the message of the campaign against the movie.

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just because the holidays focus on being drunk with your family (there are rules that you have to be a certain level of drunk at certain parts of the festival), but I'm definitely not a "believer."

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Yes the Jews are alone in their love of drinking and being with family. Truly they are the Chosen People.

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Why did I mention the holocaust? Because people that went through that had to go through a lot more than 3 days of extreme pain. That doesn't mean there can't be any other movies about someone suffering pain, but using that suffering as a context for empowering a myth is silly, IMO.

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It's sounds like you just justified the suffering of one group of people to denounce another form of suffering. I guess unless people don't die in concentration camps there can be no cause for an artisitc expression of their story.

Also you're comparing a fairly recent historical event (the holocaust) to a very old story that approaches classification as a "myth".

Well I don't think you should be allowed to do a modern day adaptation of Hamlet because a lot of people died in the Armenian Holocaust, and Hamlet's suffering doesn't compare to what they went through.

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And Schindler's List? That movie didn't focus on the physical pain. It focused somewhat on the emotional pain of the Jews, but the ones in the movie had a pretty easy time of it compared to their friends at Auschwitz. It was about a person disconnected from fellow human beings, but slowly regaining the connection by helping them in the smallest ways. Schindlers list intended to celebrate the goodness in people. I don't think it really was a force to be reckoned with in the churches of America, and it even showed how Nazis were human beings.

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It'd be hard to miss that this movie was about physical pain. It's not being marketed as "MORALLY SUPERIOR TO SCHINDLER'S LIST" so I don't really understand your point.

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I enjoy a lot of Jesus movies, including Superstar and even a miniseries I saw on CBS. He sounds like a great guy. andydougan's point is great, but even more than that: we're told God is mysterious because we can't possibly comprehend it, so therefore things he does will not make sense. That's just annoying to hear. A message of love does not fall on deaf ears, but a message that I'm not capable of really feeling love without being punished (unless I believe that some dude had more love than me) isn't fun. I want to be better than just asking for forgiveness, and this kind of philosophy doens't give me much room to swim.

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Look, I didn't write the Bible, I had nothing to do with that.

Again, don't watch the movie. People go to church every weekend, and I don't complain because no one is trying to make me go also.

If you made a movie about this I bet it would get picked up by the studios and marketed, because it sounds like a story that is good for all of America to hear.

Also MikeyG: your stance that genocides are a bad thing is a powerful, controversial stand. I salute you for standing up and being a hero.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

Does MaKK have a day job?

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...Trot and Cap'n Bill were free from anxiety and care. Button-Bright never worried about anything. The Scarecrow, not being able to sleep, looked out of the window and tried to count the stars.

Don't male Jews have a prayer where they thank God for not making them a woman?

Are you saying that I should not give it up?

I for one think I am very funny.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

Looking.

This comic expresses my feelings on the above :

[Click to view comic: 'God Smites the Oscar Crowd']

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*sigh* you people are trying to find an argument in EVERYTHING! ALL OF YOU are just waiting for someone to say ANYTHING thats a little vague just so you can jump on em!

God doesn't smite someone instantaneously for being bad, or else NO ONE would be here, not me, not you, not anyone, and this would be a desolate little dirt ball of a planet.

I can't believe someone as intelligent as you, niteowl, would make a comic in such a manner that makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE! BTW, in case you don't know, God would rather people leave their freaking appearances alone.

So I was a little vague. I'll explain it now for those that have no clue whatsoever what I'm talking about:

Coveting what someone else has (not just a car in case someone is reading far too literally into what I say just to jump on me for it) is bad cuz it leads to bad feelings toward someone else, and you're hurting yourself within, and you could destroy a friendship easily by resenting the person. And in case you people didn't get the memo, lying gets you in more trouble than it's worth. Little lies lead to whoppers, and by the end of it, no one can believe you about anything, and if it gets that far out of hand, you're not quite sure what really happened anymore either. Lying has killed marriages, broken families, destroyed friendships, and lead to hurt that could have very well been avoided. Little things can be just as damaging as the big stuff. Understand the point I was making now?

The only reason I said ANYTHING was because I couldn't stand the fact that people were making these generalizations and assumptions and connections between matter that ISN'T EVEN RELATED. I tried explaining the whole meaning behind the crucifixion that saves all of our sorry little butts so that maybe you'd people would understand.

Jesus died for our sins (all sins, from the smallest sin to the biggest) on the cross. If we believe that he died on the cross, we can be saved from ourselves and the torture of Hell.

If you choose to believe anything I've said, good. If not, its your choice to make. You can say that you've had enough of that "Jesus on a stick hippie crap" all you want to, but apparently you haven't even been paying attention because maybe you would understand the point behind the "Jesus saves bullox".

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I will rate you hard, and unendingly.

Wow, someone's a little touchy. I'm not trying to start an argument, I just love poking fun at dumb stuff. You saying that lying to your 3rd grade teacher is evil is pretty dumb, IMO.

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God doesn't smite someone instantaneously for being bad, or else NO ONE would be here, not me, not you, not anyone, and this would be a desolate little dirt ball of a planet.

I can't believe someone as intelligent as you, niteowl, would make a comic in such a manner that makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE! BTW, in case you don't know, God would rather people leave their freaking appearances alone.

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It doesn't make sense to you because you take everything literally and figuratively. Sheesh...it's not a comment on religion to be taken literally, it's parody. I was just showing the ridiculousness of all that *evil* stuff that *supposedly* will earn you a one-way ticket to Hell. Man, talk about ruining a joke by having to explain it...

P.S. Speaking of comics that poke fun at religion, don't read my Up For Debate series, Noonie. It probably won't make sense to you.

P.P.S. They're just comics. Big freaking deal. There's a whole lot worse going on in the world now.

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Think classy, you'll be classy.

Are you saying that I should not give it up?

I for one think I am very funny.

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No, I'm wondering how you find the time to do all this posting. I barely have time in my life lately to spit out a few Tobor strips.

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...Trot and Cap'n Bill were free from anxiety and care. Button-Bright never worried about anything. The Scarecrow, not being able to sleep, looked out of the window and tried to count the stars.

I liked the inference that MaKK wasn't funny better. I'm going to pretend that's what you meant.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

Wow, someone's a little touchy. I'm not trying to start an argument, I just love poking fun at dumb stuff. You saying that lying to your 3rd grade teacher is evil is pretty dumb, IMO.

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You know, I think everyone is being a "little touchy." It seems as though people find something to get angry about here and then, if the person having these feelings of anger happens to be a donor, drops their rating in hopes of "getting back," thus the rapid flickering of my rating. I'll say this one more time.
[size=5][color=blue]
I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE RATING.[/color][/size]

What I do care about is everyone demoralizing each other on a forum when there is NOTHING to argue about. I don't think there's anyone out to get any of you. Most of you act like there is. And if you flame me for this, you're just proving it moreso.

Look, Dagmar, I'll tell you this right now:

REALLY FUNNY PEOPLE TEND TO BE BITTER SUMBITCHES.

Hell, lame-ass wannabes are bitter sumbitches, too. Everyone is a bitter sumbitch. There is no way in hell everyone will get along, as much as the world may need it. A lot of really good humor and anger go hand in hand. Seriously. Even Seinfeld, a 'clean' comic, has routine after routine based on complaining about stupid things.

Lots of people are angry, mostly because the world is such a fucked-up place that everyone's lives aren't as happy as they want them to be. People who think they have a great, happy life are either successful artists of a kind (actors, painters, etc.), or just goddamn delusional and in denial. Deal with it or don't, but the best way to be at peace with YOURSELF is to deal with it.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

It doesn't take that long to write something thoughtful. It probably takes less time to write a long post than to make a comic with a large amount of dialogue.

Also I basically have NO FRIENDS.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

quote:

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Look, Dagmar, I'll tell you this right now:

REALLY FUNNY PEOPLE TEND TO BE BITTER SUMBITCHES.

Hell, lame-ass wannabes are bitter sumbitches, too. Everyone is a bitter sumbitch. There is no way in hell everyone will get along, as much as the world may need it. A lot of really good humor and anger go hand in hand. Seriously. Even Seinfeld, a 'clean' comic, has routine after routine based on complaining about stupid things.

Lots of people are angry, mostly because the world is such a fucked-up place that everyone's lives aren't as happy as they want them to be. People who think they have a great, happy life are either successful artists of a kind (actors, painters, etc.), or just goddamn delusional and in denial. Deal with it or don't, but the best way to be at peace with YOURSELF is to deal with it.

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I take it you're telling me that I can't deal with myself, or that I'm either a successful artist or delusional. That's cool that you think that way. Well, I'm not happy overall but I can deal with myself. And from reading the forums, I don't think many people who post here can say the same.

Sure you do. And if you don't, I'll be the first person to say something "corny" and be your friend.

I don't understand why not. You're such a compassionate soul.

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The giant three-phallused phallus of Uzbekistan will one day squirt the cosmic jizz of revenge all over Canada.

Fuzzyman I just read some of your Tobor strips.

Don't quit your day job.

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Vote Jeb Bush 2008

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*sigh* you people are trying to find an argument in EVERYTHING!

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Why yes, I beilieve this is the "Fights Go Here" forum.

Them's fighing words.