Oh, Lordy. This guy calls the first movie "an astute mix of everything trendy in postmodern sci-fi (Philip K. Dick and his paranoid visions of the world-as-simulation) and philosophy (Jean Baudrillard's view of the real obscured by materialism and technology), and everything up-to-the-minute in special effects and action." I suppose Philip K. Dick was "trendy in postmodern sci-fi" (cringe) before he died, over 20 years ago. And at that time, it'd been 20 years since he'd won his Hugo. And since that time, there's been a little body of work called "Cyberpunk" that may have, arguably, slightly informed movies like The Matrix. It certainly informed Blade Runner back in 1982, maybe more so than Dick's novel that it was based on, maybe so much so that the reviewer's "trendy" idea of Philip K. Dick is actually William Gibson.

And don't get me started on this "postmodern" noise. See, the plot here in a nutshell is that the bad machines have taken over and are masking "real" reality with their illusory one. Now, I don't have the precise definition of "postmodern" quite down, but I think the idea that there's a "real" reality that the characters are struggling to discover and reclaim... well, that just ain't postmodern. To me, postmodern is smoke and mirrors all the way down. Uncover one illusion and you get another illusion. You want postmodern? Mulholland Drive is postmodern. That movie will fuck up your head, and by no coincidence, it earned zip at the box office. Sorry, there are no "postmodern" blockbusters starring Keanu Reeves.

Sheesh. I'm just sayin'.

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What others say about boorite!

I thought The Watcher was a bit postmodern.

I don't know about all those claims as to the Matrix's greatness. The first movie was good enough, I think. My complaints about it were mostly Morpheus and long-windedness related. Most of the exposition was slow and boring.

Matrix Reloaded has a kajillion times the exposition and it seems a kajillion times more boring. Pseudo-philosophical monologues that really go nowhere, on and on and on forever.

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www.bradsucks.net

Something bugged me about my usual assumption that Ridley Scott was reading lots of William Gibson when he came up with the pomo noir atmosphere of Blade Runner. It's that Gibson's first "cyberpunk" short stories were published in 1981, 1980 at earliest, and his big first novel wasn't published until two years after Blade Runner. So Ridley Scott would have had to have read a couple Gibson stories (at most) and then hauled ass to production. Blade Runner doesn't look like it was made that way.

Turns out both had been laboring under the influence of the same material, which was the work of "comic book" artists like Moebius. Mystery solved.

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What others say about boorite!

I don't think that all of the talking went nowhere. Some, yes. Most? No. There was a lot of hidden meaning in what was said. One thing I didn't get was that kid that followed Neo all over... Where the hell did HE come from and why did he serve NO purpose?

I really liked the move however...

I agree that the philosophy and the long-windedness was pointless. The Matrix has never had any philosophical ideas that aren't at least a century and a half old, nor an especially ingenious way of expressing them. If you went to see Reloaded hoping for some deep philosophy and came away disappointed, blame yourself.

I went to see Reloaded hoping to see a good action movie, and I feel I got my money's worth. The fight with all the Smiths was impressive, even if the outcome was certain from the start. The freeway scene is the longest continuous action scene I can ever remember seeing in a movie.

I didn't object to the scenes in Zion, except the gratuitous sex scene. They were important to the development of the main characters. And am I the only one who thinks it's strange that Zion's so important to the story, but we never got to see it until now?

I do hope that the ending doesn't mean what I think it means. As the movie was starting, I thought to myself, man, I hope they don't do that. That's the most cliched, lamest thing they could think to do. Surely they have better sense than to do that.

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The what mentioned above is total fiction. Please don't take it seriously!

It is my contention that if most people knew just how fuckoff old and all-been-done everything actually is, they'd shove a gun in their mouth.
Expecting a something like a film comprised mostly of CGI and black clothing to make a bold new statement is... um.... a bit silly.

Such great expectations have, oddly, also been done before.

Go figure.

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I wanted my half in the middle and I wound up on the edge.

boorite, please stop derailing this thread. It's about how the Matrix Reloaded is an awful movie, not about how the Matrix is an awful movie.

Maybe there was meaning I didn't pick up on, but the delivery was so incredibly boring and horrible I wanted to pull out my eyes and plug my ears with them.

It seemed like almost every new character we met in the movie had about a 5-10 minute monologue and they talked... so... slowly... to... enhance... dramatic... effect. I'm pretty sure The Architect guy said "ergo" three times in one giant expository monologue! THREE TIMES!! That has to be some sort of shitty dialog record.

The core plot stuff in Matrix Reloaded was actually okay in my opinion, it was all the rotten delivery that bothered me.

Yes, that was pointless. I assume it will be dealt with in the third movie but that doesn't excuse the fact that it was boring in THIS movie.

Some of my other questions:

What was with point of the rave sequence and why was it so long? What was the point of Neo nailing Trinity and why did it take so long? What was the point of the Link & his wife scenes taking so long (and being so boring)? What was the point of the whole first 40 minutes and why could it not have been condensed into 10? Why did we start off just waiting around for the Oracle to call? Nothing was happening! What was with Neo's powers? Why didn't he just fly away whenever there was trouble rather than kung-fuing for a while? What was the point of that whole retarded fight sequence with the Oracle's bodyguard that apparently was meaningless but took a long time? Why couldn't Neo tell Trinity what the hell his dream was about and why did we spend so much time watching him angsting about it and all the while not telling her "buhhh, i had a dream where you died... maybe it was like for real... watch out for agents and windows..."? Why can Neo fight a million Agent Smiths and stop bullets but 5-10 maybe-Werewolves or maybe-Vampires with swords give him a tough time? Why can Neo stop bullets and fly but he can't do anything else interesting at all within the Matrix? Why did we have to watch so many meetings? What was the point of the whole bathroom kiss thing and why did it take so long.

And there's more but I'm running out of energy. I don't really have too many questions about the actual plot, just about editing and filming choices. And mostly of the "why did you show ... for so long" variety.

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www.bradsucks.net

Haha. :)

Actually, I thought I had the answer to that one, until the movie ended. See, the Oracle told Neo he'd have to choose between Trinity and Zion, right? And that he had already made the choice and he just had to understand why. And that's the choice Persephone (that was her name, wasn't it?) gave him as well. Betray your girlfriend and I'll show you how to save your people. Neo should have refused, he should have said "I intend to save them both". When he didn't, I thought, that's foreshadowing; she's as good as dead.

But hey, what do I know?

Jeez, the more I talk about it, the more I find to criticize. Still, I had a good time watching it.

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The what mentioned above is total fiction. Please don't take it seriously!

See, with the kiss thing I was all "okay okay... this is all a freaky trap by that French guy. She's got like code on her lips or something and it's going to infect or change Neo or something. That'll be lame because it's like so obvious, but at least there's a point to it."

No. Denied. No point, zero.

I'm glad you enjoyed it at least the once evil_d. I think I would have been fine with chalking it up as an enjoyable mindless action romp if there hadn't have been about an hour and a half of talking about nothing in the movie.

Cut all that out and you have some pretty cool action sequences, the whole truck and motorcycle one in particular. The agent Smith stuff and the miscellaneous invincible-Neo kung fu was kind of a yawner for me. I just didn't feel there was any real threat to Neo at any point, so watching him fight was just watching him go through the motions.

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www.bradsucks.net

Um... I'm gonna sound like a dork, but I'm just gonna say this.

There was also released on the 15th a videogame written by the brothers that follows Niobe and Ghost. Some stuff in the game clears up some of the stuff in the movie, though I think its ridiculous to expect everyone in America with problems understanding stuff to shell out 50 bucks for a BUGGY game.

Also- I think Neo fights because he's so bad ass. I mean, think about it: If you could beat up 100 Agent Smiths and look super-sweet doing it, and know that you could always escape by flying away, wouldn't you do it?

I mean, c'mon. He hit that one guy through a window with a pole. When it comes down to it, the Matrix is about fun. It is a fun movie to watch, and so is the sequel. It sucks if you can't enjoy it, because I get a hell of an adrenaline rush every time I see anything Matrix related.

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Sex Piano.

As far as I'm concerned the job of the movie was to tell a more or less complete story (with some exceptions given for it being the second part of a trilogy). The game should provide cool bonus stuff. I don't think any level of understanding I can reach however will make me ignore the really bad acting and awful dry speeches and council meetings and blah blah.

I don't know, but I do know that if I wasted time doing that, when Zion got destroyed and all free human life exterminated, I'd have no-one to blame but my dumbass self.

That's cool and I wish I was like that. I guess the thing I'd like to communicate is that I don't feel my problems with the movie come from taking it too seriously or not seeing it as lighthearted fun. Because that's how I went into the theater. Expecting a kind of fun, kind of retarded action sci-fi flick. Instead right off the bat I got a dream sequence and about 40-60 minutes of dry, awful dialog and plot in a movie taking itself far more seriously than I ever could.

But God bless everyone, regardless.

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www.bradsucks.net

If you thought Reloaded was wanky, wait until you see the Animatrix.

Well, there is no correct opinion. Once again, beauty lies in the eye (or mind) of the beholder. Anyone interested in bashing X-men? It's funny, I think I'm opposite-man or something. Everyone seemed to love X-men and hate Matrix RL. I'm reverse.

To me, they form a continuous oeuvre, like the first three seasons of Who's the Boss. How, for example, could we possibly grasp the significance of Mona's quitting and moving out late in season 3 without fully considering her crucial role in the formative stages of Angela's and Tony's relationship, when Mona helped Angela overcome her embarrassment at having been seen naked by Tony early in Season 1? Mona's increasing distance heralds a new and more intimate stage of Angela's and Tony's relationship, in which Mona's role as mediator is vestigial, at best. So I am not off an a tangent at all.

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What others say about boorite!

quote:

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It is my contention that if most people knew just how fuckoff old and all-been-done everything actually is, they'd shove a gun in their mouth.

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Brad: I agree, a writer is in trouble any time his characters start speaking for him. Characters are supposed to do stuff. If the stuff they do is supposed to make some point about Gnosticism or something, fine, but for God's sake, no monologues about Gnosticism. If I want that, I'll Cliff the Nag Hammadi Library.

To totally not go off on another tangent, my favorite worst example is the 80s Brat Pack vehicle St. Elmo's Fire. Not one character is permitted to have the most fleeting thought or emotion without expounding on all its ramifications, to the extent that no one ever does anything. But then the Emilio Estevez character gets all wacko over some girl and he rides his bike through the pouring rain and shows up soaking wet at her fancy party. I think, "finally, someone in this movie has done something." And then Emilio opens his mouth and informs the object of his affections, "I'm obsessed." Oh, no kidding, huh.

That is bad, bad writing.

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What others say about boorite!

quote:

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quote:

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It is my contention that if most people knew just how fuckoff old and all-been-done everything actually is, they'd shove a gun in their mouth.

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Or they might just shove a gun in your mouth for pointing it out.

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I feel glad that my movie expectations are such that I can reap joy out of just about everything I watch, despite how much shit other people give it.

I enjoyed the Matrix Reloaded. I don't recall ever thinking the beginning was slow. Maybe there wasn't continuous ass kicking for the first forty five minutes, but there was enough of a story unfolding to keep my attention. Later on there was lots of kick ass fight scenes, some explosions, nifty car chases with trucks and motorcycles, a chick in rubber dress, orgasmic chocolate cake, an evil guy with a French accent and a super-villian that only needed a white cat to become the spitting image of the head of S.P.E.C.T.R.E.

My only disappointment was that they used a gay ass Cadillac in the chase scene. They should have used a car with more zing.

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100 pounds of shit in a 25 pound sack.

quote:

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I feel glad that my movie expectations are such that I can reap joy out of just about everything I watch, despite how much shit other people give it.

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Well there you go, baby. That's what matters.

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100 pounds of shit in a 25 pound sack.

I wonder how gabe feels about the Matrix Reloaded now that he's banned and dead to me forever.

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www.bradsucks.net

Damn it, I liked the film. It was entertaining, not deep, but some of the art was fantastic; I absolutely loved Zion. And Agent Smith was still cool, though I can't help thinking he would have been better in drag...

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Absorbed directly through the skin.

quote:

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I don't think that all of the talking went nowhere. Some, yes. Most? No. There was a lot of hidden meaning in what was said. One thing I didn't get was that kid that followed Neo all over... Where the hell did HE come from and why did he serve NO purpose?

I really liked the move however...

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Can you go "Pff" in awe?